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Edited by LoneHunter777:
9/16/2015 5:36:53 AM
26
To Those who Hip Fire The Last Word:
How's 2.0 been treating you?
For me, Aggressive Ballistics isn't worth it anymore. Scoring 65 dmg/bodyshot means it can't 3HKO a high Toughness Guardian. On top of that, the Range penalty significantly reduces it's accuracy while continuosly firing so it won't hit even at fairly close ranges. The Dropoff makes scoring 65 dmg impossible unless you are [i]just[/i] outside of Shotgun range. Frankly, AB is no longer viable for "Punishing" hyper aggressive players imho.
Soft Ballistics will score 60 dmg/bodyshot: a 4HKO in 0.8 seconds. Since 2.0 this has been my prefered Ballistic option. The superior accuracy at range makes better for punishing Run&Shotgun play-styles while carrying my Sniper. It can still lose out against Assault Rifle Primaries at Mid-Range, but that was true pre 2.0 if you hipfired then too.
I've definitely noticed the increased aim assist while hip firing. I'm starting to actively "aim" for the head and melting Guardians for my efforts. Sometimes I feel like I'm cheated out of a headshot, but it's still much better than it used to be. Soft Ballistics can kill in 3 shots if one round hits the head in 0.56 seconds.
IF YOU PRIMARILY ADS THE LAST WORD, PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT.
Edit:
After reviewing my Crucible Footage, I suspect that my bad luck with TLW is because I haven't adjusted to the return of the Spray&Pray meta. Still, The Last Word is close to where it ought to be, but not quite there yet:
-Increase the base Handling. I shouldn't need to spec Single Point Sling to feel like I'm using the Fastest Gun in the Wilds. Whats worse, Single Point Sling "Increases Movement Speed [b]while aiming[/b]". Weisnewski, you're sending us mixed signals.
-Bring the Range back up to "normal". A fast firing CQC primary weapon with 8 rounds needs as much accuracy and range as possible to be a match for Shotguns. The new dropoff and low stability while ADS should prevent TLW from getting too out of hand.
-Aggressive Ballistics has been over nerfed. Either reduce the stat penalties, or increase the Impact Bonus
-Smart Drift Control has never offered The Last Word anything when/if it's hip-fired, and it offers even less now. Replace it with another ballistic perk like Smooth Ballistics or Field Choke
-Replace "Single Point Sling" with Lightweight. This perk synergies much better with TLW's Primary Perks and general play-style.
-Remove Perfect Balance from TLW. This is what was encouraging Guardians to ADS with Last Word and having much greater reach than they should. When hip-fired, Perfect Balance offers zero benefit as the Stability is already maxed; yet another perk that's contrary to the intended design. Replace it with either Small Bore, Hammer Forged, Oiled Frame, or Feather Mag.
-Buff the High Caliber Rounds perk so it additionally increase Precision Damage by 5%.
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I only used it for a while after the update before switching to bad juju but my basic observations were that it is worse in pvp now but much better in pve except for long range encounters.
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I completely agree TLW, I too find myself having to empty the whole clip to kill one person. They have made hand Cannons so terrible now. They need to be effective at close and mid range combat.
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8 RepliesTLW is very inconsistent now. you can no longer be sure how many bullets will actually register dmg. i see myself emptying the entire clip for each person = i always get punished if theres more than 1 person. also, first time ever running to a special ammo crate because i run out of primary ammo :/
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6 RepliesWait, Guardians ADS with Last Word? Why?
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Bump. I need to try soft ballistics.
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Very good . i agree
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I really like hip firing it and I've been adamant that's how it should be used. But yeah I use the same ballistics setup I just need to keep practicing
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I hip fire it and it still works decently but I use max stability over agressive ballistics.
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Omg it's great I love the gun so much now
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If you change TLW ballistics to Soft Ballistics and slow your rate of fire the further your target is from you (if you are in close combat fire as fast as you can) then you are fine. I'm getting double + kills, depending on assisting fire, at long auto rifle range. Basically the only problem I have with shotguns is if they are using blink to close the gap quickly. ADS is pretty worthless unless TLW is your only option to get shots on someone at Pulse rifle range, and at that point you should either be sniping, closing the gap, or running anyway.
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6 RepliesI feel it should have just a smidge more accuracy and stability from hip fire perk. The accuracy is rough.
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3 RepliesEdited by Kebiru25: 9/14/2015 4:40:18 PMI was practicing pre 2.0 with hipfire and was getting better at it. But with the update, I can't hit anything even if it's in my face. I finally noticed that Aggressive Ballistics might have been my problem, though I haven't had a chance to test it. Should I even hipfire anymore? Is it worth it? I mean shotguns seem to have more range and accuracy than TLW now.
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1 ReplyMan honestly I have put my Last Word into my vault after this patch. I tried so hard to get used to the changes and I just could not, the gun is ruined for me sadly. Even before 2.0 I would never hip fire TLW I always used ADS now you HAVE to hip fire and I hate it, even the hip fire is absolutely inconsistent and I lose all the time to shotguns etc.
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2 RepliesI think the gun was weakend a little too much in 2.0. Modifications should be: Either it should hit a little harder, or have a little better hip & ads accuracy with a little better range. At the moment it is SO NICHE as to be mostly useless. With the fast shooting, hard hitting pulse rifles closing in from medium range and the incredibly hard hitting shotguns in close range... There is not much room to thrive with TLW... Too much inaccuracy is killing this great gun's usefulness. Thorn is still fine after the nerf but TLW needs a little help. It is just too weak. It is more of a museum piece now.
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2 RepliesLet's all admit that tlw is nerf oblivion. I Mean increased recoil and a huge range drop off. Now with every one running auto,scout,pulse, u have no chance. Bring back the range. The increased recoil is manageable.
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I've been using soft since I got the gun which is only about a month ago. But yea I like them.
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Im liking soft ballistics a lot more, i line up the first shot and hip fire the rest
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I use the first ballistic with perfect balance. The hip fire is pretty good now, still a little bit hard to get that headshots, but good.
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3 RepliesJust tap out shots at mid range and use gunslinger trance along with a sniper and it's still effective at mid range due to the stability boost from trance
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1 ReplyCutting back perfect balance is stupid, beats the purpose of 'Perfect' balance lol
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Edited by Alpha Revere: 9/14/2015 11:31:04 PMBump. Took my TLW out of the vault for a few crucible matches only to put it back in the vault. I used my TLW expressly for the hip fire bonus so I wouldn't have to ADS and it's garbage now.
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I use aggressive ballistics and go back and forth between Perfect Balance and High Impact Rounds. I've noticed they dropped the damage output of hip fire from 111 to 106, which is disappointing. I think they nerfed the damage output all together.
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Started hip firing more since 2.0. I like it. Works very well for me.
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To preface this, I'm mostly a PvE player and so this perspective is mostly coming that. Before 2.0, I had always said that TLW's problem was that for a hip fire weapon it had atrocious accuracy when fired from the hip. I would often try and practice with hip firing but it was crazy unreliable, and would often miss stationary targets aimed square in the face. Since 2.0, it's definitely more consistent about hitting where you fire (when at the appropriate range), but now there's a new problem. The damn thing kicks like a horse and I've basically never been able to get two consecutive precision shots while continuous hip firing, even on big slow targets like servitors. For most enemies I just have to unload all 8 shots, hope that I accidentally get a precision shot, and pray that they're dead by the time I have to reload. And after watching a lot of post-2.0 footage of PvP with people hip firing with TLW, that pretty much seems to be how things are in Crucible too. I rarely see any precision hits, and people just seem to waste an entire reload to take out a single player. And it's effective in this way, I guess, but like it was before 2.0, I feel like TLW just isn't getting the full benefit of what's supposed to make it special. The Last Word is a danger because of fan fire and that's basically it. The signature perk and everything else is pretty negligible compared to that.
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I haven't switched from AB yet but I'll try it. It feels weird lumbering around the map not even bothering to aim the damn thing. Since I'm so used to running and then aiming to quickly merc someone. It really changes the way you move around. However, feels great to basically have a 8 round heavy machine gun permanently.
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I can still roll a couple guys at once close quarters with TLW from the hip, but if I don't happen upon them in a room/catch them around a corner, the damage falloff at distance is considerable. As hip firing a hand cannon should be. It's way worse with other hand cannons, so I think it holds an appropriate edge over the others in that it's supposed to. It's The freaking Last Word. From the hip, like a gunslinger should.
