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Edited by xXx G3TZUM xXx:
3/1/2015 7:47:16 PM
28
PvP Class balance -- Bungie, have you looked at the data?
I was clicking through the top 10 players @ Destiny Tracker on both platforms (XB1 and PS4) when I realized all but 2 of the 20 players are either hunters or warlocks. Digging through a little bit more produced similar results.
So, Bungie, you're doing a great job balancing guns via stats and looking for outliers like this (think pulse rifles), but are you evaluating class balance? The stats don't lie....top players are gravitating (heavily) toward the other two classes for pvp. My guess is this trend is true for the top quarter to half of pvp players as well.
A huge reason for this is blink strike/teleport with shotgun for hunters/warlocks, which is still the common pvp approach for these two classes. Titans are screwed in a scenario where they are rushed by this (i.e. no escape confrontation)
Titans get shoulder charge, which is brutal when executed, but the fact of the matter is that the window for execution by default is too slow to engage and is too short effectively rush against strong players. Smart players will sit back with a shotty watching radar indicate a rush and will one shot you. The titan jumps, incl the catapult, are just not effective to keep up with the range melee or vanish/appear/shotgun style.
The supers for the hunter and warlock class are very offensive minded, which makes sense except the defensive strength for the titan only shines in PvE. Smart hunter/warlock players know how to deal with bubbles easily with a quick change to setup. Fist is great, but the kill radius is so small that it's either a pure defensive ace card for space magic or bladedancers, (often just a one kil scenario), or suicide leap
What do the stats look like for the top 1,000 players in PvP? I.E. What does the class distribution look like? What is the average number of kills per super used per class in that distribution? How often is blink/teleport/shoulder charge being used in a kill setup vs number of kills without? How do they compare?
Would love to hear some discussion. The stats don't lie....clearly hunters and warlocks are the preferred PvP classes, which indicates imbalance. If this data represented different gun classes, balance discussions would absolutely take place...
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The class doesn't make the huge difference it's the people who use it, Titan players are typically the support role of the team, hunters are the hardcore blitzkrieg type people, and warlocks are the in between defensive and aggressive. So when you think about the type of people who love playing PvP type stuff the hunter and warlock will appeal to them more. For the most part the classes are actually quite balanced practically every super can't counter the other supers (with Titans getting the short end of the stick but can make up for it with shoulder charge). Long story short no class is better than the other more competitive people favor the warlock and hunter because it fits their playstyle.
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Having used all three classes in the Crucible, my Titan has the highest KDR. My friend complains that Titans also lack in comparison to Hunters and especially Warlocks, and he mains a defender Titan. I have the least amount of trouble on my Titan regardless of which subclass I use. Blink is annoying, but after a while, that trick isn't always going to kill you when you know where they'll be. FOH is my personal favorite with how easy it is to score multiple kills with less risk and urgency than Nova bomb/radiance or golden gun/arc blade. I think it's more or less the people than the classes themselves.
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The top 100 is heavily weighted towards hunters for sure, but it does even out as you start looking more and more at the bigger picture. If you check http://destinytracker.com/destiny/population you can see what I'm talking about. Sure titans get the short end of the stick in PVP. You'll hear a lot about how titans are overpowered and invincible, but the data shows quite a different story. People love to ignore the 3 times they beat a guy when they're bitching about the one time he got them. But bungie says they're happy with the balance as is, and it's not lopsided enough to encourage them otherwise. Remember it took people using shotguns and pulse rifles 2% of the time for them to start doing something about it.
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2 RepliesTitans are op everyone knows it.
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6 RepliesThe kill radius for fists of havok is not small.
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17 RepliesTitans, on my end of everything, are a little over-powered. The shoulder charges is a one shot, and can be executed fairly easily. Fist of Havoc can wipe out an entire team, and normally won't cause the user's death like literally any of the other supers can, unless the player is unimaginably unskilled. It takes skill to run the hunters because they don't have an AoE super, and can very easily die to normal weapon fire using both blade dancer and the golden gun, but that's not important. You're not considering how fast these players reach their supers. However, biases aside, there is no "over powered character" and searching for a nerf with the subclasses would ruin the game, because the titan would stay the same, the hunter and the warlock would no longer matter, and everybody would be using titans and crying that they need a nerf three days after that imaginary patch would drop. So please, just let it be. People will play what they play, and that's that. Any more nerfs or buffs in this game, and its going to start being unplayable. Right now, red death is one of the strongest primaries in the game, and my secret handshake with void damage is now outclasses my ice breaker. That's not okay.
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2 RepliesBlink would be irrelevant if kids didnt -blam!-IN USE SHOTGUNS!
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5 RepliesPart of the problem is that during the blink you can't harm the Hunter/Warlock. I play Hunter mostly and do blink rush from time to time but it's not my favorite strategy - it really is too strong and aggravating to play against. A player should not be rewarded for recklessly charging into another player who's stringing headshots together with a kill simply because of 1 ridiculously strong skill that effectively cheats death (headshot multipliers may need to be raised to stop this). I for one am tired of firing Truth at someone only to see them blink just before the rocket detonates and then pop me in the face with a shotty, that's just BS. I thought the recent patch would actually curb the shotgun nonsense but it's just as prevalent and annoying as it ever was. Coming from a background of shotty rushing as much as I could in Halo, I have to say Destiny just takes it to a whole other level of annoying, to the point where most of the time you can't even really fight back and only pray for a kill trade at best.
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stop this crap. this pvp shite is what ruining the real side pf destiny ( pve ). first guns get ruined now pvp cry babies want to ruin classes. plz just stop.
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3 RepliesI stopped reading at "... you're doing a great job balancing guns ...".
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This is such bs go home
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Titan needs Turbo Boost for Shoulder Charge for a better balance!
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Edited by Freetos: 3/2/2015 5:07:36 PMI wreak more havoc in PVP as a titan than I do as a warlock. I play titan on a different account
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1 ReplyWell blink and a shotgun is something that can't really be balanced. They'd have to actually take one or the other out of the game
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Titans just need a growth in their arms, that's all
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1 ReplyWait wait wait so coincidently. Because the hunters and warlocks are the classes the best players use that makes them the best classes? Or, here's an idea. They are just good players? As for classes they don't matter much. Once you get up there in the leader boards it's really sniping and gun handling to worry about. Basically. It doesn't matter your class. A sniper round to face kills it.
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The classes are different. Some are better than others in PvP and PvE. I don't find this a bad thing at all.
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Don't worry I'm sure your Titan will somehow be the hero of the next raid, I seem to remember a time when no one wanted a hunter on their VOG raid team
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6 Repliesinb4 Lol OP is just mad because he;s bad at crucible, OP, people like you ruin the game OBVIOUSLY Hunters are the WORSE crucible class you're just bad mind you the hunter super is the ONLY SUPER THAT TAKES SKILL....lol this guy everyone should be running hunter (and they do) because that's how BAD the class is needs more rep lol whiner :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) [spoiler]oh god I think I'm going to be sick[/spoiler]
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Posted about this in early October, retired my titan accounts to the gym. Titans are playing chess in the crucible against classes that are playing checkers and it's bullshit. Way too high maintenance
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7 RepliesYou guys have just as bad of an ability/shotgun combo in Juggernaut. That plus shotgun plus slide at the end= death. Id argue that's worse because you can track your enemy the entire time, blink can mess up your screen's vision
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9 RepliesThat's because the Hunter is by far the best. Warlock is second best and Titan is the bottom.
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Titan was my first class. At the time I didn't know any better and tbh I picked it based on the aesthetics. I still have the titan and you can see from the stats that I gave it a good run on pvp, but when all is said and done the hunter and warlock are just better and imo its all about the supers. Its quite simple really: Hunter's super allow them to pick players one at a time. Because of that, when the super is deployed, they don't need to have the foe in a cluster and can just go one after the other. This is the best option of course. Warlock is a bit worse because the nova bomb is basically a purple rocket launcher. Its still good because even if the foe need to be in a cluster for a multiple kill it can still be thrown from a far from a safe position and aimed at. Titan has it worse. Fist of havoc is not only also only usable in clusters, it also demands that the titan be at the location where he wants to deploy it but has no extra shield to position himself there. So it usually comes down to just luck of the moment where you're surrounded and take the opportunity or you save it to counter other supers. Also, even if the titan can have the highest armor (220 if memory serves me ?..) its just barely above what can be achieved by the other classes and definitely not a game changer when you have weapons dealing crits like 30 and above.
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I'm fine being the underdog
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Look at the global stats. Gunslinger higher than Blade Dancer.
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This may be true at the tippy-top, but it sure feels like Titans are at the top of the K/D list after a match with most of us normals.
