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10/5/2020 3:43:51 PM
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It's funny cause every class think the other ones are easy mode... let's be fair they all have there ups and downs.. broken builds and busted exotics! Hunters are widely used because the movement feels natural and fluid. It feels like most other games in that respect. The jumps and dodge feel natural. The glide and burst of the other classes take getting use to and can be even more advantageous if you take the time to master them... most casuals dont put in that time tho.. just want to play right then and have something that feels good to use.
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I play all three classes. Hunters have had their abilities optimized for pvp while the other two have had theirs nerfed to tip the scale in favor of guns and agility. Which magnifies the ad vantage they have. I’m a Warlock main. But put me in a must-win situation in pvp, and I’m going in as a Hunter. Which is why Hunters dominate high level play...and Warlocks are practically non-existent.
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I play all 3 aswell and agree they all have there advantages. But the nerfs have been pretty equil across all 3. It comes down to basics like map awareness and accuracy. I was a hunter main in D1 and would only play hunter in pvp.. in d2 however I feel like as my warlock I can dominate way easier. It all comes down to playstyle.
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Uh, no. It’s not a nerf issue it’s a design issue...and Bungie has designed and tuned the Crucible to suit what Hunters do well. Destiny ONE, OTOH, had better balance among the classes. As a result you had a wider variety of viable play styles and more room for individual displays of skill within those play styles. Also the possibility of and need to manage asymmetric engagements made the game play much more interesting. But D2 was made in an effort to make Crucible and-sport. The result was a third-rate Halo copy built around the Hunter...and to a lesser degree, Titan skill sets. Warlocks were busted down to a support class and are still trying to work their way back from the damage done.
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I would have to respectfully disagree. Warlocks although yes started out awful in D2 pvp have been getting better and better.. titans have always been shoulder charging crayon eating shotty rushers.. no real change there and if anything the hunters are forced even more to hard crutch on exotics to be really good.
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Warlocks are still awful in PVP compared to where they were in Destiny 1. ...and there is a reason why they are virtually absent form any sort of high level competitive play in this game. While you can't swing a dead can't and avoid hitting several Hunters in a single swing.
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Top tree Dawnblade disagrees with you, Kelly.
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Because Top tree Dawnblade is a fundamental departure from the bargain that Warlocks were based on....and is the most recent addition/update to Warlocks. The reason why Top Tree Dawnblade works is that Warlocks have been able to borrow the agility that is usually limited to Hunters (as long as they are in the air), and have been given back SOME of the neutral game power that they had in Destiny 1. Top Tree Dawnblade is without a doubt the best Warlock PVP subclass in the game, but it is still WEAK compared to Warlocks from Destiny 1.
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I mean all classes are fundamentally weaker than their D1 counterparts. Been doing a lot of comparisons between the two games lately, since D2 is sort of boring right now. You’d seriously be surprised at how much better the D1 abilities were. Re Nova Bomb, I will totally agree with you, as Nova has been a shadow of itself since the launch of D2, and I’ve always been a Nova bomb main for my warlock. Same with Storm Trance, as I forgot just how lethal they used to be. That being said, it’s not inherent to just the warlock’s. It’s the same for titans, as well as hunters.
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[quote]I mean all classes are fundamentally weaker than their D1 counterparts.[/quote] Not true. Arc Titan is stronger. Solar Titans are about the same strength (in PVP) that they were (post Sunbreaker 1.0 nerf) in D1. Void Titans are arguably stronger. Because its not just a defensive super anymore. Though Titans were hurt by the loss of Destiny 1-era Titan skating. Hunters aren't much weaker. Middle tree void Hunter is just as strong as Bladedancer. Arcstrider is almost as strong. While Golden Gun has been made more versatile, with Blade Barrage being arguably the best shutdown super in the game. The only real hit they've taken is that the other Nightstalker trees are useless in PVP...but then they never were really that strong for anything other than trolling Mayhem. ..and that's BEFORE you add in the benefits of Dodge in a PVP setting, and the fact that it is the only class ability that doesn't ROOT the user to a spot, and has the shortest cooldown. Fact is that Weisznewski and his crew have been tipping the scales in favor of Hunters for years, because their goal was to create an e-sport. That imbalance has SLOWLY been getting better in the 18 months since Hamrick and Weisznewski have been gone, but it has not been fully addressed.
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Bearbeitet von Lord Kielron: 10/5/2020 9:23:32 PMWhy is it you are trying to push an anti-hunter agenda with this response? I was going to break down each point and where I agreed/or disagreed, but you took it and dedicated half of it to an anti-hunter post, which had nothing to do with my reply above. As for your narrative of putting blame on former Bungie employees for everything, please stop. JW was the epitome of the word nerf in D1. We all know that, and his second in command made decisions based on how things bothered him. D1 was left in a piss-poor state because the over reliance on nerfs to everything when they caused the issues themselves instead of course corrections on bad decisions they made. Just because they are no longer there, does not mean that things are going to be better off, because that’s just not the case. That’s just hopeful thinking at its best. I’m already seeing that top tree Dawn may get nerfed. And I can call exactly what may eat it on the class because frankly it’s obnoxious to fight in general because of these specific factors. If it doesn’t, I would be shocked. Do I agree that hunters were built for PvP? Yes, and I’ve said that since the beginning of D1, as it’s obvious, especially with how they handle in regards to other classes. My warlock, who runs bottom Nova handles almost exactly like my hunter to me. The Titan doesn’t. But that is me, and me learning every class over the course of 6 years. I just don’t like Titan play. Never said I couldn’t use them to their strengths. No class in better than another outright. They operate differently, and thus have different strengths to different scenarios. I wish people would learn that, but no we are so preoccupied with claiming classes are better than one-another that we cannot see the strengths of why they were built how they were. Part of why 3 subclasses with just roaming supers is bad design as a whole.
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Why would I "push an anti-Hunter agenda" when I PLAY ALL THREE CLASSES?? What I'm pointing out is the RESULTS of the previous Bungie regime pushing an "gun skill"/Make-Crucible-an-E-sport agenda. That agenda led to a nerfing/de-emphasis of character abilities. Both in terms of their strength, and their availability. That change---in an effort to grab for e-sport credibility---devastated Warlocks, and hit Titans harder than it did Hunters. For the simple reason that in a gun-based game---weapon bonuses and speed/agility are king. So the playing field was tipped in favor of Hunters...and it is no coincidence that all the guys who worked on the sandbox and on weapon design under Weisnewski were PVP guys....and played Hunters themselves. The situation has gotten **better** since that crew left the company, but the playing field isn't level. I've played through too many Crucible matches as a Warlock in D2 where Hunters and Titans just lay their ears back and run at you, because they basically have nothing to fear from you at close quarters unless you have shotgun ammo.... ....and literally just face-tank grenades other than hand-held supernova. Which of course got nerfed. Along with Nova Warp. Along with everything that threatens to make Warlock abilities a competitive force. [i] Gun game== Hunter advantage[/i].
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Again would have to disagree. While yes there are a lot more hunters. It's because it feels natural to use and has nothing to do with the other classes being weak. Look at the top top of the pvp food chain... the top tier players like potato.. gigs.. panda... what do they all have in common.. they all use warlocks! Now yes there are a lot of top tier that use hunters and some that use thanks.. point is it's how you use it and the classes are closer then what you think. People always like to complain and blame there bad choice in a match on the other classes being easier/overpowered... when it's more they just made a bad push or had poor map awareness.
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You can disagree all you want. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. If the classes were balanced, you'd see a balanced representation of them in the most competitive content. ....but you don't in Destiny 2. But you DID in Destiny 1. ..and I'm sorry, what a few statistical outliers can do with the skill gap between their talent level and that of the typical player is NOT persuasive.
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You're joking right? There was more players on hunters if anything in d1! Again there is a lot of hunter cause it feels natural to play of so both skilled and casual players feel comfortable on it. Warlocks jump and movement takes some practice for it to feel natural.... so obviously you'll see less of them... and titans... well titans are built to ape so are an easy choice if that's your playstyle
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[quote]You're joking right? There was more players on hunters if anything in d1![/quote] Glad somebody mentioned this. Pretty sure it wasn’t even close in D1.
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Pointless in arguing with Kelly. Guy doesn’t play Crucible and acts like Warlocks are trash. Guy is a complete goof.
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In defense of titans the shoulder charge needs... not a buff but a fix. A lot of times the shoulder charge will not do what it’s supposed to, either stopping me inches from the guy (who was like 2 feet away, very frustrating when I got peregrine greaves on and trying to stop a roaming super in trials) or just not locking on someone and I just give them an almighty push as I go by. The sentinel class needs a lot of these, 30% of the time the shoulder charge doesn’t even do anything or the shield bash won’t damage someone
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I will agree the hit detection needs some work... but titans have had that easy kill button for too long.. the tracking use to be crazy on it.. so I dont feel bad for titans.. especially ones that use insurmountable skullfort... I will be the first one to bag them when they shoot stio and I kill them... cause it's so annoying being ohk by a melee
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Bearbeitet von ParkAir024: 10/5/2020 6:36:07 PMDon’t get me wrong, the shoulder charge used to really unfair and I’m a Titan main. I mostly use it as a movement tool more so than a kill button
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Not joking. The predominance of Hunters started out in D1 because Hunters in Y1 were the only one's with roaming supers (see the pattern yet?). When Warlocks got Stormtrance and people figured out how to use Sunsinger....then you saw a big uptick in the usage of Warlocks in Trials. That's of course until the tryhards and the streamers got to complaining....and all of the Warlock abilities got nerfed into the ground. (see the pattern yet?) Which led to the horrible state Warlocks have spent most of D2 in terms of PVP. The tuning of Warlocks basically goes against the entire FOUNDING PRINCIPLE of the design of the subclass....and the game's lore. The lore states that Warlocks are the Guardian class that draws upon the Light most heavily for their powers. So the bulk of Warlock power is bound up in his or her ABILITIES. Movement, Melee, grenades, Supers. Stormtrance was built on a foundation of having a reatlively weak neutral game, but in exchange for one of the most powerful supers in the game in D1. Stormtrance is so laughably underpowered right now that you have to equip exotics just to make the damn thing USABLE. Bolt grenades used to TERRORIZE PvP. As they were an excellent means of destabilizing campers and corner crouchers...and players would run for days to get out of their way. Now, a simple Hunter dodge (which can be had every NINE seconds with the right build) can break its tracking (and the tracking of Cataclysm)..... ...and since grenades never take more than half of an opponent's health (instead of being OHKs like fusions were in D1) , most players don't even bother to get out of the way of them anymore. They just stay where they are and face-tank it. THEN there is the matter of melee range. In D1 Warlocks were given a longer ranged (but slower moving ) attack as a counter-balance to their lack of reslilience and slower movement. It forced Hunters and Titans to have to show a Warlock a measure of respect in a slap fight. Because a good Warlock could get the first hit on the way in....and get the last hit as an opponent tried to run away. But---once again---the try hards cried about how unfair it was. So Bungie "balanced" Warlock melees by reducing them to the same range as everyone else's....and then didn't bother to remove the slow speed. The result is that Warlocks were left absolutely HELPLESS at melee range. The lack of mobility let Hunters and Titans run rings around us...and the slow melee speed left us at a horrible disadvantage. Not only did the other classes show NO respect in closing to melee range to press their advantage..... ...they frickin' laid their ears back and came after Warlocks like an NFL safety coming on a blitz on 3rd-and-a-time-zone. "Run"? What running play??" While the changes in the last 2 years have made the situation (slighty) better, Warlocks are still underpowered in PVP and will always be underpowered as long as there is this misguided effort to make PVP a gun game. Because that demphasis of abilities is always goign to hit Warlocks harder than everyone else.
