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7/14/2017 2:13:30 AM
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Thanks for this. First I will say that I play a lot of PvP and I also support the new loadout. [b]Wall of text inbound.[/b] I think the PvP benefits of this loadout are undeniable. Gameplay will feel balanced, it will feel slower paced but ultimately that is a part of it feeling more tactical. And the comments by people who have already played the game echo this sentiment. Now, fundamentally your argument is that PvP is dictating the direction of PvE gameplay, and it has done so since the game launched. Which is correct. Well, at least for D1. We just don't know if PvP was the only feature that influenced the loadout change. However I think that it is not. I think that PvE is also to blame for the loadout change. Let me explain. If you look at the D1 content, and how we tackled them using the loadout, there are only a few conclusions. Gjallarhorn, Ice Breaker, Black Spindle, Fatebringer, Swords. There is only one primary weapon on this list, and that is also an elemental primary. Which means that in Destiny 1, people thought this was the best way to play the game. And the resulting gameplay was as follows: Gjallarhorn was the primary weapon for use against any boss in the game, snipers were extremely powerful and Fatebringer, being the best primary in the game for its perks and elemental ability, alienated rest of the armoury. In the end, end game activities became so much easier as a result of using that specific combination of weapons in the loadout in this way, (sniper/Gjallarhorn) and gameplay became stagnant. It even caused elitism in the PvE community. None of this will be a concern with the new loadout system in Destiny 2. And sure, killing bosses with strong weapons is fun, but ultimately it takes away from the ideas that Bungie had with the game and how it was to be played. With the new loadout system, it overlaps both PvE and PvP usage. The kinetic slot is for general use, and the Energy slot is for specific use, such as against shielded enemies or supers. The fact that these two slots share the same types of weapons allows for different variations of gameplay for players, and they can mix and match according to their preferred play style. So for example, in PvE, you could use a scout rifle for your Kinetic weapon, and use an auto rifle to get up close with shielded enemies and deal with them face to face. Or you can also have an elemental scout rifle so that you can effortlessly deal with shielded enemies without having to change your style. The option of how to play is yours. In PvP you can choose one weapon for close engagements, and the other weapon for more ranged play. Or you can have to close range weapons, one fully automatic and the other could be semi-automatic. The choice again is yours. And so he Kinetic and Energy slots are the main method of engagement. The Power slot is for a boost to power. Any weapon that provides a dramatic boost to your firepower belongs here. It is very similar to the Heavy slot in D1, but that slot had issues. Snipers were special weapons but they frequently did more damage than machine guns and most rocket launchers, making the heavy slot redundant. And in PvP, this allowed for some skilled players to abuse the ammo economy and dominate the game. So any weapon that can provide firepower that is noticeably different from the main two slots above, is a Power weapon. This gives meaning to the entire loadout, this puts us in a situation where we have to think about our loadout and make tactical and strategic choices, and also facilitates PvP and PvE balance. Now, unless my reasoning is flawed, I just can't see why this new loadout is bad, other than the desire to be more powerful than necessary.
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  • [quote]Which means that in Destiny 1, people thought this was the best way to play the game. And the resulting gameplay was as follows: Gjallarhorn was the primary weapon for use against any boss in the game, snipers were extremely powerful and Fatebringer, being the best primary in the game for its perks and elemental ability, alienated rest of the armoury. In the end, end game activities became so much easier as a result of using that specific combination of weapons in the loadout in this way, (sniper/Gjallarhorn) and gameplay became stagnant.[/quote] People were not just using those weapons because they were fun. They were using them because it was the only way to complete the hardest content. Bungie tuned the content to the level where if you were not using the most powerful guns in the game you were simply not going to finish it. Nobody was going to kill Atheon before enrage with just primaries. And I don't see a problem with using weapons because they're fun. One of the things that makes Destiny stand out in a crowded market of shooters is the whiz-bang factor. Its just plain fun to use a lot of the weapons in this game. Toning everything down will also tone down the fun. I understand that we need to actually play D2 before we can say whether that has occurred. But this is a concern for me. I want Destiny to remain fun to play. Milquetoast guns aren't fun.

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  • You raise important points. When it comes to raids, and these kinds of Heroic end game activities, I think anybody would expect that you need to prepare powerful weapons to deal with the boss. And it's true that the encounters are structured such that it will be difficult to finish without these weapons. But I think another reason for people using such specific weapons was because of how easy they made the end game. Defeating bosses in one phase? If you look at the Gjallarhorn nerf, you will see that Bungie doesn't agree with weapons having that much of a damage output. So with the new loadout, you will have a Power slot that is dedicated to high damage weapons. So when you are taking on a boss type enemy, this is the slot you want to think about the most. So in theory it works the same way as the Heavy slot, there's no change there. I don't see how the loadout change will make Destiny 2 gameplay boring. The only difference is that we lose the ability to carry two high power weapons, which has been reduced to one. Honestly, the Special slot infringed on the role of the Heavy slot, so it was not necessary to have both. That's why we were so powerful and everything became easy. I don't think it will be less fun at all. It will just be fun 'differently'

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  • Its not the loadout change that I think could impact fun. Its the guns themselves. One of the things that makes looters work is a constant feeling of progression and of growing in power. I'm sure the developer might be a little hurt that the content they slaved for months on is being demolished in minutes by players once they've acquired the game's most powerful guns. But that's the reward in games like this. That eventually you become a god and can smash most content. Sure, maybe it was cheap to smoke Skolas before the mines even came out when using Gjallarhorn on Solar Burn week. But you know what? That was FUN! Nerfing Gjallarhorn just felt like Bungie having a tantrum because their end-game content that was supposed to be so hard was being cleared too easily under the right conditions. The loadout I can deal with. As long as content has been tuned such that we're not struggling to clear adds and DPS the boss without being able to use both a Special and a Heavy then I'm cool with that. I just want fun and powerful guns to put in those slots.

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