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4/21/2016 2:41:06 PM
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That's far too much coding considering they would have to programme all of that in.
Just stop being lazy and form a group, simple.
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Bearbeitet von JasperGTR: 4/21/2016 4:19:34 PMCoding? How about Optional Matchmaking? They already have activities with matchmaking, and activities without. All we need is a select button to launch event with matchmaking, and another button to launch without. The rest will work itself out. This requires almost ZERO work to be done. It's only Bungie's ignorance that prevents this from happening. There is absolutely no logical argument AGAINST optional matchmaking.
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It's posts like these that stifle actual constructive communication. There are a multitude of perfectly valid arguments against matchmaking, even if optional. Even if the actual programming of such a feature is simple, it would have ramifications across the entire community. The Division has optional matchmaking for all content (though it's difficult content isn't nearly as complex as a Destiny raid) and you know what? It's a wretched experience that's completely against the casual players that MM is supposed to help get acclimated in endgame content. If you want to hear some game design considerations for why matchmaking (even if optional) wouldn't work for raids, I'm happy to share them, but it seems as if you're not interested in a discussion.
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My point never argued for or against matchmaking. There are MANY reasons why matchmaking wouldn't work for me. OPTIONAL matchmaking has no downside. There is no logical argument against optional matchmaking. Those who want to use it, can use it. Those who think it is a bad idea, can choose NOT to use it. Problems solved.
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OPTIONAL matchmaking has all of the same downsides as forced matchmaking, do you think that people are able to compartmentalize things to a degree where they won't be affected bad experiences? Allowing a player to queue for an encounter including mechanics based around a fireteam is not necessarily good design. There is only so much frustration or abuse that a player will handle before it ends up being a worse experience than not running the content at all. In The Division, the Incursion is barely a week old and people are burning out due to horrible matchmaking experiences, and that Incursion has a fraction of the complexity of King's Fall. Conversely, designing content around supporting matchmaking would stifle creativity as far as mechanics goes, because you would have to make sure that no-mic randoms could complete the activity at X%.
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Bearbeitet von JasperGTR: 4/21/2016 7:02:48 PMNot really - because I can come up with as many reasons why I DON'T want matchmaking in activities it is currently present. And my concerns would be addressed as well. Once again - optional matchmaking doesn't solve any of the problems associated with matchmaking, but rather gives an opportunity to use it or not use it. Optional matchmaking doesn't solve all of the problems associated with NOT having it, but rather gives an opportunity to use it or not use it. Any argument for or against matchmaking can now be supported by the choice to either use it or not use it. Both of which can be right - hence no logical argument against it. If you think matchmaking is bad - don't use it. If you want to put up with all of the nonsense that is matchmaking - use it. If you want your own fireteam - use LFG (as you would today) - and not use matchmaking. If you want to solo content (even heroic strikes, PoE 28/41, etc...), enter by yourself, and don't use matchmaking. If you want to enter a match/strike with only 2 people - create fireteam in LFG (or clan, etc...), launch mission without matchmaking. Who is forced to do anything, or be exposed to a certain match they didn't choose to be in?
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[quote]Any argument for or against matchmaking can now be supported by the choice to either use it or not use it. [/quote] This is where we disagree. I think on the individual level you are correct. But from the perspective of game design, taking the entire community into account, giving players that choice will result in players choosing it without all of the requisite information for success and thereby having a bad experience. This isn't about "hey Jasper, just press X to find a team," it's about looking at the data across the entire community. Even giving the option is a disservice to players who aren't "in the know" about the complexities of the raid, because they will queue up with no mic, expecting it to be another strike and fail over and over and over again. The reality is that optional MM would likely be co-opted by experienced players looking out for their own convenience, who will either boot players who are lower light/inexperienced or just leave teams chronically. And when you try and consider developing countermeasures to the social choices players make, the complexity of implementing such a feature goes up exponentially.
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Bearbeitet von JasperGTR: 4/21/2016 7:13:48 PMI would agree that game design is important... This is where content/design/mechanics may differ in MM implementation/necessity. BUT - for this content (and I added a few more situations where the choice to NOT use matchmaking solves more problems), you've suggested situations that are of an opinion - your opinion. Some people will love the idea of clicking on any mission and thinking,"I can't do this myself - press 'Y' or 'triangle' to launch with matchmaking." Others (like myself) would LOVE the idea to start heroic strikes either solo or only with one other player. As of now, I have the opportunity to open 6 XBOX One's with 6 different profiles to avoid MM woes - I'm not sure this is the norm. For the exotic sword quest - I went into MM 3 times with people that I found were looking for a different sword, killing my warden first. So I simply launched 3 profiles (my son, my daughter, and my own), then carried on through the mission solo, so I could it myself. Optional matchmaking would have solved that for me, because I could choose NOT to use it.
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[quote]I would agree that game design is important... This is where content/design/mechanics may differ in MM implementation/necessity. [/quote] This is what World of Warcraft did with its raid finder. It had raid matchmaking, yet the version of the raid that players were put in was heavily nerfed and had lesser rewards. I doubt people would be happy if there was a simplistic King's Fall with matchmaking, but that only awarded 280 items. The scenario about choosing to solo is a completely different discussion than enabling optional raid matchmaking though.
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But I feel it's the same - because optional matchmaking gives me the option to NOT use it as well, right? Don't both sides win? The challenges you're mentioning are items you feel are not worth your time. Others may disagree, but now they'll have a choice to use it, and you'd have a choice to continue using LFG as you have up to this point - so your experience will be unaffected.
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Again, it may be the same feature but the scenarios are completely different from a wide perspective. Choosing to solo a group activity like the exotic sword quest implies awareness, experience and game sense. That is a different set of variables compared to optional matchmaking for a new player to stumble into King's Fall when just following quests. My whole point is that across the playerbase, having matchmaking as an option will harm the latter group of players because they will be "thrown to the wolves" and that the system isn't equipped to make them better players.
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But won't they have an option to not use it? I guess I don't see which party will be negatively affected. I still see reasons why matchmaking is not suitable for certain circumstances. I agree with many of them, but that is also my opinion.
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That option would not be obvious. Once it's an option, it immediately becomes the "intended method" in player minds. Right now people have the idea that MM should be in the game but that is a philosophical disagreement over the "intended" way that people should group together. Just having MM as an option for content such as raids would make LFG and making friends (superior options) second fiddle to MM. Like I said in an earlier post, The Division serves as an interesting example of how the community forms around MM and the way people participate in content evolves.
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Bearbeitet von JasperGTR: 4/22/2016 7:12:57 PMWhile human behavior and tendencies are interesting, please point out to me which type of player would be negatively affected by optional matchmaking: Player who wants to join a random group for Vanguard/Heroic Strike Player who wants to solo Vanguard/Heroic Strike Player who wants to create a group of 2-3 for Vanguard/Heroic Strike Player who wants to join a random group for Nightfall Player who wants to solo Nightfall Player who wants to create a group of 2-3 for Nightfall Player who wants to join a random group for 28, 41 PoE Player who wants to solo 28, 41 PoE Player who wants to create a group of 2-3 for 28, 41 PoE Player who wants to join a random group for 32, 34, 35, 42 PoE Player who wants to solo 32, 34, 35, 42 PoE Player who wants to create a group of 2-3 for 32, 34, 35, 42 PoE Player who wants to join a random group for Daily Heroic Story Player who wants to solo Daily Heroic Story Player who wants to create a group of 2-3 for Daily Heroic Story Player who wants to join a random group for Raid Player who wants to solo Raid Player who wants to create a group of 2-6 for Raid I left out a few activities - but please help me identify who would be negatively affected by having a choice to enter matchmaking or not.
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You don't know that. Coding for gaming is far more complex than you can imagine.
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I do. At least I did 6 years ago. The basics haven't changed. It's more settings than coding. The coding would be for the button options at the launch page - you know the ones that already exist?
