Bungie, this is something you acknowledge over and over again, that you want the classes to have identity, so why is equipment any different? Why must the characters have identity, but weapons should be all purpose?
We've got these short range scout rifles and pulse rifles, snipers with low zoom optics, fusions that can't decide which reach they should have, hand cannons that think they're snipers, heavy auto rifles that can reach scout distances, etc.
All of these weapons serve their respective purposes, trying to make everything all purpose is just a stupid idea, this is why you struggle with balance. You really need to pick a lane with each weapon archetype, and stick with it. Its fine that they have variation, that's great, but you swing too far to extremes. Scouts are long distance, precision weapons with low to medium zoom sights, that's it, snipers aren't supposed to be something useable in any close quarters scenario, and certainly not meant to be used while moving. Short range sniper scopes are nonsense. They should literally only be long range capable.
These are just two very simple examples in this game. Everything needs to have its purpose. You don't want identity crisis in this game, then stick with simple purposes for all weapon types. Just a simple model something like:
Sniper - Long
Scout - Mid to mid long
Pulse - Short mid to mid
Auto - Short mid to mid
SMG - Short to short mid
H.C. - short mid to mid
Sidearm - Immediate to mid short
Fusion - Short to short mid
Shotgun - Immediate to short mid
Glaive - Immediate to short mid
Sword - Immediate
Rockets - Mid to long
Linear Fusion - Mid to long
Heavy Machine Gun - Short to mid long
Grenade Launcher - short mid to mid
All of these should only compete in those respective ranges, with overlap between some to really help even them out. Outside of those zones is where they need to take hits in other areas depending on heavy rounds with higher recoil and farther travel, and light rounds with less recoil but shorter effective distances. A sniper shouldn't be practical for use outside of long range, a pistol shouldn't be practical for use beyond short range.
It doesn't have to be done exactly this way, I just was thinking about their real world application uses because it makes the most sense. Those higher calibers reach a little better distances. Instead of trying to make everything useable at any range, try simplifying more or something, reign it in some. Just suggestions.
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3 RepliesSolution: nerf HCs and make bigger maps.
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Guardian,Archon Of LightRIP Destiny 9-14-2014 to 2-18-2026 - old
I don't agree with limiting weapons like that, weapon diversity keeps the game interesting Has a scout lover, I enjoy all the diversity in the weapon type , long range and hard hitting, shorter range and fast firing If there was only one type of each weapon, the game would be really boring -
You forgot bows
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4 RepliesI don't get the point of this post since your suggested ranges for each archetype is what bungie already uses. The different sub archetypes are just a neat way to offer variety and there isn't enough difference in their range to push these sub archetypes into different ranges. For example precision frame HCs has a range around 18 meters while high impact HCs has a range around 25 meters. D1 also had sub archetypes as well just they didn't use these term back then. For instance atheons epilogue would have been a rapid fire frame while shadow price would have been a precision frame. The biggest problem isn't overlapping ranges but is encounter space sizes. D1 had much bigger areas so long range weapons were just as viable as close range weapons
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4 RepliesShotguns are short. Fusions are mid. Snipers are long . The rest fits in the category you put them in.
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1 ReplyI agree with you every weapon feels the same. And then I just pick the most powerful one that won’t get nerfed. Wave frames all day. Yeah getting mapped with a hand canon sucks.
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4 RepliesEdited by neonsox42: 7/17/2022 5:30:46 AMSo you’re asking for less weapon diversity between archetypes? Destiny’s in a decent spot. Most outliers are due to how the game is played and not what the game is, and a lot of issues in the PvP sandbox rn could be made better by decoupling range from zoom. Removing archetype differences would be very discouraging to the vast majority of players and make loot much more -blam!- Edit: wow ho-mo-gen-us is a curse now.
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1 ReplyEdited by SirEman80: 7/17/2022 10:33:48 PMEhhh… I just think primary weapon range profiles overlap too much without clear pro/con play style implications. Hand cannons do everything short mid to long mid with basically no downsides. Pulses the same except they handle poorly and reach a little longer range. SMGs are short to mid but have reached out their range so much that Autos don’t have anything going for them anymore. (Autos should have lower body shot ttk imo to give them something to offset how exposed you have to stay to use them effectively) Side arms are short to mid and strong as they can be without being oppressive. Scouts are hard to balance because they can get too strong very quickly and most engagements are mid range. In other words, I just think that each weapon type should have a clear idea of pros and cons for play style (and every weapon needs a tradeoff *cough cough HC)
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1 Reply-weapons- *the game*
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1 ReplySirD sent you here
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6 RepliesYou raise a good point about too much divergence among the archetypes but it's way too late to just undo the Frame system. A lot people's entire mechanical identity is based on a particular Frame of a particular archetype - this is here to stay. Do consider however that other shooters do this as well but without named conventions.
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I loved using my explosive payload bite of the fox sniper as a shotgun. I mean you have someone rushing straight at you, hip fire with them in center of screen, follow up melee just like shotgun melee.
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I too saw that video
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1 ReplyHeavy Auto Rifles have sht range and need more wtf lol I use the hell out of my Come To Pass and it has massive aim assist fall off and ghost bullets so you can't even utilize the range and damage falloff itself ruins them.
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3 RepliesSo I am a very aggressive HC/Sniper main and you’re saying you want one of the last fun things to do in the game be nerfed? This is a sci-fi shooter. Nothing wrong with being able to be extremely aggressive and use a sniper in any type of engagement. At least there is a skill ceiling for it
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excellent post. I'm sick of getting outgunned by a stupid short barrel hand cannon at scout/sniper range. and the same for all the rest.
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I saw feedback recently that said the exact opposite of this.
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Good suggestions, I like the idea.
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3 RepliesYour mistake is taking pvp in this game seriously their nothing competitive about a pvp mode with three different classes with a variety of builds to surround them in its chaos at worst and poodle along and watch some YouTube and switch off at best
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Placing a cap on every weapon is the only way to fix this issue. This would stop hand cannons from reaching pulse rifle ranges or fusions getting the random 25+ meter kills.
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2 RepliesEdited by A_mo: 7/17/2022 1:53:13 AMThe only thing with that is that it might limit the variety within a particular archetype and when anything new comes along it could possibly (although not surely) limit its potential. Weapons are weird because people don't think they should fall under the whole "space magic" thing a lot of the time when they talk about them. But with abilities "space magic" is used to shut almost any criticism down. A good thing about what you're describing is that it could also help some of the underused archetypes like autos and scouts truly become viable. Which pretty much everyone would like in terms of the variety of things that could end up being useful. But at the same time limiting what works in a given scenario could also start to feel controlling to some people if it goes overboard. And making some of the things the game does easier to do or less noticeable does not automatically always lead to happier players.