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6/26/2018 5:02:35 PM
12
Well the problem isn't retcons.
The problem is that all the knowledge the Vanguard has is based off of records that might be damaged or incomplete. Remember that the Collapse happened [i]centuries[/i] before the current date in the Destiny universe, much information and knowledge has been lost to time and the elements.
The Vanguard [i]assumed[/i] that Raputin was on Earth, they were wrong. It's far from the first time that they were wrong about something too. They're not all knowing, they can and have made mistakes.
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This is still technically a retcon. In D1 there was nothing to suggest that Rasputin was actually on mars. In fact all the gameplay/lore suggest that he was trapped in the bunker. If there was a small hidden clues that you could piece together that would prove he was on another planet all along then it wouldn't be a retcon but as it wasn't and all the hidden clues suggested he was on earth this is a retcon. It's not a twist because there was no foreshadowing it's just "history was wrong it was mars all along".
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Edited by Astartes Marine: 6/28/2018 1:43:36 PMIf it was confirmed that it was the whole of Rasputin that was trapped on Earth, then yes it would be a retcon. As it is this is more of an expansion of the information and correcting of false assumptions. We assumed it was the whole Warmind, he'll we assumed there were a bunch of Warminds. We didn't know the full scope of the Warmind's systems or reach, we still don't really. I'm reminded of Halo Combat Evolved where we spend the first five levels wondering what the ring is, then being told that it's a weapon and wondering how to use it against the Covenant...and then for all of that to be turned upside down when we find out the truth and discover Halo's deadly secret. "This ring isn't a cudgel you barbarian, it's something else, some much more important." Granted the reveal with Rasputin did not have NEARLY the same impact...I don't even want to imagine Guardians fighting Flood, but the effect was similar. We believed one thing, then found out it was incorrect.
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Part of the transcript of The Buried City Mission: [quote]Ghost: This AI once connected to the Warmind of Mars. Rasputin: [Soul does not exist. Death does not exist. Virtue does not exist. Everything is allowed.] Ghost: Rasputin's controlling it. I can't get in and neither could the Cabal. He's everywhere now.[/quote] Maybe there was.
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That happened AFTER the Array mission, where you give rasputin access to the other systems. You can't use that as proof that he already existed there.
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Yea, because all the bunkers with RAS on them was just a coincidence.... Gtfo with your bullshit excuses for bungie.
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Like I said, we don't know much about the world our Guardians fight in, much of that knowledge was lost. We're still rediscovering everything, little by little. My theory is that the Rasputin bunker in the Cosmodrome was a prime node, a direct link to the Rasputin core on Mars whereas the other bunkers housed the subminds or nodes for the subminds. Problem is that link between the prime and core were lost during the Collapse leaving a portion of him on Earth, a fragment of a whole. When we reactivated the Array in the Cosmodrome he stretched out and began to reactivate the subminds and other bunkers but the core on Mars was still dark because of the deep freeze. Now that Mars is secure, Rasputin is whole again and his network of Warsats and doomsday weapons is once again operational.
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And again, you can MAKE UP all the bs you want, but it's been retconned. They've admitted they are making up the story as they go. Just own it like an adult instead of acting like a child and making excuses for why the world is flawed.
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Edited by Astartes Marine: 6/27/2018 1:04:41 PMHow is it a retcon to begin with? There is a difference between retcons and making conclusions without having all the info. The Vanguard made assumptions on faulty or incomplete information. Like I said before, it's nowhere near the first time that happened. All we can do is piece together the information and make conclusions, at the end of the day who knows? It might end up being true that there were other Warminds like Charlemagne and Rasputin is the last, that Ana Bray was wrong all along, or that Rasputin was always the primary Warmind with many subminds and so on. Point is we don't know for certain, we're all stumbling around, fumbling in the dark for answers and all we have are bits and pieces of what happened centuries before. Only thing we can trust for sure are our guns and our power. Maybe Ghost as well. Insults will just get you muted too. I'm all for discussion, but it will be a civilized one or there won't be one at all.
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Edited by w3rdblader: 6/27/2018 1:14:14 PMOK, so everyone in the vanguard believed it to be this way. It was written down, by characters that have been alive SINCE THE WARMIND WERE CREATED, but they must have gotten it wrong because the warmind expansion story lead said so.... Yea, I'm going to stick with my insults. The entire cosmodrone is covered in Rasputin bunkers and symbology, you could get into zones in d1 for Charlemagne, and not a single piece of information ANYWHERE backed up the new story. But you're right, just because it's recorded in history and the people who have interacted with the systems for centuries SAY it's one thing, doesn't mean that they ALL CAN'T BE TOTALLY WRONG. You're right, my b. Jk, -blam!- you. I don't give a shit if you mute me. You're clearly willing to just make your opinion whatever bungie tells you it should be.
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Edited by Astartes Marine: 6/27/2018 2:01:25 PM[quote]OK, so everyone in the vanguard believed it to be this way. It was written down, by characters that have been alive SINCE THE WARMIND WERE CREATED, but they must have gotten it wrong because the warmind expansion story lead said so....[/quote] Remember that no Guardian has memories of their life before the resurrection, outside of whatever they were revived with hence why Ana Bray knows her name (reborn with her Clovis-Bray ID, Cayde with his journal, etc) Again all anyone has to go on is with whatever fragments of information they can get their hands on. [quote] The entire cosmodrone is covered in Rasputin bunkers and symbology, you could get into zones in d1 for Charlemagne, and not a single piece of information ANYWHERE backed up the new story.[/quote] Like I said we don't know the full story, and Rasputin doesn't like to share or open up about anything unless it's his own ass on the line. It's possible that Charlemagne was an actual Warmind, or that it was merely a submind. [i]None[/i] of the dialogue ever states anything with concrete 100% certainty. That I [i]will[/i] take issue with, the writing is still too vague. It was fine in D1 to have mysteries and unanswered questions but at some point we will need answers. [quote] But you're right, just because it's recorded in history and the people who have interacted with the systems for centuries SAY it's one thing, doesn't mean that they ALL CAN'T BE TOTALLY WRONG.[/quote] Nobody outside of Ana Bray or possibly Eris Morn interacts with Rasputin. I'm reminded of the SABER strike where Zavala mentions the last team of Guardians sent into the bunker to interact with Rasputin, their remains were scattered across the Skywatch...and then there was that nasty business with the Iron Lords that became twisted, SIVA infused abominations... City history and archives are filled with incomplete or damaged information. Centuries of decay and exposure to the elements out in the wilds do a number on computers and data storage. [Quote]Jk, -blam!- you. I don't give a shit if you mute me. You're clearly willing to just make your opinion whatever bungie tells you it should be.[/quote] No I'm looking at the information available and seeing how any of it fits together. Like a puzzle, just that 7 to 8 out of every 10 pieces is still missing.
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No. He WAS on earth. The lack of him doing [i]anything[/i] until we activated the satellite array is proof of this. Not to mention the fact that he was testing out the weapons on Mars to get a feel of their firepower.
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[quote]No. He WAS on earth. The lack of him doing [i]anything[/i] until we activated the satellite array is proof of this. Not to mention the fact that he was testing out the weapons on Mars to get a feel of their firepower.[/quote]
