Idk cammy raged and deleted weapons lol.

So far the most balanced and well put argument for both sides was Cammycakes and by a country mile, SNTR I don't like so I wont comment on him as I'm biased, the other usual suspects are towing the line because no matter how bad it gets they wont bite the hand that feeds them. Change has to happen, the meta as well as the game itself are v.stale, retiring is an option, for me it's the easiest to implement and it's the laziest, the perks changes reek of the same, why work on all the perks that need work when you can nerf the ones that do work, namely damage and reload, straight up lazy, no excuses will cover up that simple fact. For me a massive rework of armour at a fundamental level would've been nice to see, true armour sets that give certain perks and skill tree bonus, more set pieces the better the bonus, this I would hope would challenge the meta to a degree enough to make the changes worth the effort, mods do this to a certain degree but not enough to make a difference. Also as much as Bungie are to blame, and they are, we as players are just as guilty, we demand so much and we want it yesterday. For me it boils down to what Bungie are prepared to and able to do, I think the engine itself is a limiting factor but I don't know for sure, but what little we have heard about it is the fact it's not the best to work with from a development point of view, also while something in the game has to change, so do the attitudes of senior Bungie staff with regards to the vision for the game, so far it is all about unrealised potential for me, it's worth remembering that the Halo Bungie of old has gone, this is a new and different beast. Ultimately I'm sure of two things. 1. Retiring will go ahead unless there is a massive drop in players and they make it clear that is the reason why, we all know that wont happen. 2. The Autumn content will v.good, maybe even better than the Taken King, and when it's all new and shiny the pain of retiring will be forgotten. If they go ahead with retiring, do it quick and be done with it, knowing I can still use my favourite weapons for a year with the knowledge they will be gone will just fester in the back of my mind and is just salt on the wound, do it quickly and do it now

Well put together. Tbf cammy is usually great with commentary and info. That being said the video of him deleting weapons paired with the video beforehand really turned me off of his opinion. He had a list of pro and cons yet was extremely biased with the pros. Not to mention his emotional response in those videos (which I do understand). He also has to understand that he also has a platform to speak on the subject and really hurts his opinion when its clouded by emotion imo. Now his recent video he seems to be back on point with understanding both sides. I'll use the legend himself as another example. Great player from d1 for info and solo stuff ie. Raids. Yet myself and others I've spoken too again have just not bothered with his content due to him acting extremely hostile towards bungie. (His broken pvp metas video for example). I pretty much agree with your opinion on it and is pretty on point. A lot of fps/mmo/rpgs live service games do some sort of retirement to keep the game fresh and to also keep you grinding. Like I said before I am pro sunset but am optimistic in hopes that bungie can fill the gaps left from it.

I shouldve said to watch the rageless roundtable hosted by SNTR lono.

I've seen most of the big cc opinions on the subject. Both sides discussed. Most pro sunset but like myself optimistic. Bungie needs to fill the gaps left after sun setting. I do understand why they are doing it (most mmo/rpgs/fps do this) I also understand why people would be upset. Unfortunately most of the spam here is refusing to see both aspects of why it is happening. More of bungie bad - make better weapons- I quit - power creep is fake etc.