Haven't raided yet, and when I do for the first time, I look forward to working through it with a group of like-minded (read 30-somethings or older) folks that are either new to the raid too, or who are interested in playing the part of mentor/Fireteam leader. However, I can definitely understand the drive to cheese after having beaten the raid "properly" numerous times (though I don't think it's the sort of grinding that appeals to me). That said, beating Atheon by pushing him off the edge seems like the [i]most[/i] legit way to beat him, considering he's supposed to be some time-travelling Pentium III or something. What better way to add insult to injury than to defeat a seemingly omnipotent time monster by pushing him off a cliff, which he apparently doesn't have the wherewithal to time-travel back onto? Good grief.