Tbh, I could care less about tlw and thorn. They aren't op at all, they are fine. The reason why everyone now says they are op is because after the AR nerf, everyone moved to hand cannons because they are the next best efficient weapon. My problem isn't with the guns, it's the people who join a game with 6 thorns. I've been shot so many times in 5 seconds that my dead body probably died 6 times.