This makes so much sense! So if I like using Truth, I should not upgrade so it's still beast in crucible. And if the idea of using truth in the raid is appealing, sucks for me! ... This only works if the weapon in question is only used for PvP. Most do not use weapons that way. Most use their best stuff for both. OP was correct in his annoyance. And you're all jackasses for disagreeing.

Rofl classic, the typical my opinion is fact so don't disagree move. NICE~! (but really it isn't and you're a dipshit hahaahahahah)

You want facts? A 323 thorn vs a 300 thorn in IB. Who wins? But according to you, if you only play crucible, why would you want/need to be the dude with the 323 thorn? If damage is capped in regular crucible, then you don't need to upgrade damage, right? Unless you want to be the guy with the 323 thorn in Iron Banner. (SGA: everyone who plays a lot of crucible wants to bring their A-game into Iron Banner.) And yes, that is a fact.

He said PVP. not Iron Banner which is a PVE playboy's wet dream. EVEN still. tell me how is a 323 thorn used by an idiot going to be better than a 300 thorn used by a competent player. You rely too much on upgrades to make a difference and for your lack of skill, which is apparent. PVP is Crucible where it's all normalized AND constant not like that PVE-oriented EVENT. AND now you bring in Iron Banner to try and have leverage for a better position for yourself when it was nowhere mentioned in the OP.

Alright, you clearly need some education here... But first, "A PvE playboys wet dream..." If anyone has any clue what she is referencing here, help me out. I'm seriously confused by this bit of prose. Oh yeah, sweet cop-out with the IB. "But if you suck you'll still get owned, even with OP gear!" Duh. You think you're teaching anyone anything here? How about two accomplished players, one has OP gear while the other has just recently reset. They are similar skill levels. Think that will be a fair fight? If you say yes, I know for a fact you haven't put real time into IB. Why did I bring up Endgame content? There are two versions: PvE (raid) and PvP (Iron Banner). The IB is the pinnacle of the PvP experience. It's what all PvP load outs are designed for at optimal levels by skilled players. This FACT is something you clearly do no understand. People don't discuss optimal load outs and top tier level everything for doing patrols. They do it for the Hard Raid. The same is true for PvPers. Crucible is just practice for the real deal, aka IB. Keep responding please, you're getting so owned right now...

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel aren't you? ahahahah Trying to mention I'm getting owned is a figment of your own imagination. Crucible IS PVP. Anyone and Everyone knows that. You only brought up IB to just to make a point about attack which is USELESS in "real" PVP. You already knew the OP mentioned perks and and their relevance in PVP. Now you try to defer to a TEMPORARY event which is hardly end game to try and save face. Pathetic really. So you're basically saying: "WAHHHH Our weapons are TOTALLY useless now in PVP because of a 1WEEK long EVENT". Cool story bro. I totally didn't know 1 week events were permanent endgame. You're are the epitome of the cliche douche dick. I can tell you're nervous trying to deflect our own pwntness with this golden statement. [quote]Keep responding please, you're getting so owned right now...[/quote] Keep getting rekt, little girl, it's not going to end well for you.

Okay, keep telling yourself that REAL PvP is crucible. The same crucible where I can do just as well with a blue shotgun as with any exotic or legendary. The mode where time spent in the game means basically nothing. It's essentially like saying the tiger strikes are the real game and the raid is just a special event. The only difference between the raid and IB is it's permanence. Will your argument hold up if Ib becomes a permanent fixture? Keep the ad hom attacks flowing, they're feeding my patrol on mars as we speak.

YUP. You know where.... weapons are NORMALIZED. Everyone, regardless of PVE level has you know... the same chance to own based on this weird thing called.. SKILL. Yeah that's REAL PVP. Not the PVE diluted PVP you're thinking of in the form of Iron Banner. You keep proving how much of a rub-a-dub scrub you are by showing you NEED a level crutch by constantly deferring to Iron Banner which is AN EVENT. And no, just like your whole arguement, your Tiger Strike comparison is pointless and useless. Why? Tiger Strikes AND the Raid are permanently in the game. Crucible AND Iron Banner are not the similar comparison. Obviously. You fail so hard. Little girl. I'll keep the ownage coming. Just keep your asshole lubed. You need it since I already rekt your vagina. P.S. Get reeeeeekt I'm sure the fallen are collecting your tears for their own bounty right now. Probably laughing at how you're trying, and failing horribly, to level up your precious exotics crutch.

Did you even play iron banner? It's the best people with the best gear. 30's vs 30's pretty much across the board. Scrubs need not apply. Which is why I know you never played it. So keep acting like you know what you're talking about. Clearly we'll agree to disagree with each other. However my goal was to wreck you so the people reading understood that the reset does matter to PvPers. People who don't play a lot of crucible shouldn't really be giving their opinions on this issue. You can talk about it being a special event all you want. The simple fact is, it is ENDGAME PVP. For the bad assess. I'm sorry it is so hard for you to understand.

Except... my titan, which you can easily see, had rank 5 and all the level 30 gear from it and Perun's fire/Jolder's Hammer/Whatever/etc. Apparently I do know what I'm talking about because you just got owned by your own misinformed statements. If anything SCRUBS are the only ones playing Iron Banner because of how much they cried for a LEVEL ADVANTAGE from the previous one. Why? BECAUSE THEY NEEDED IT. hahaahahhah That's why Iron Banner is NOT endgame PVP. Why again? Because why would ENDgame PVP be PVE reliant? Fail yet again. Reset does NOT matter to PVP'ers. It only matters to crybabies hoping and wishing for a PVE level advantage to make up for their lack of skill in a real PVP setting.

Why would endgame PvP be PvE reliant? Is there any examples of this in the game? Are exotics considered endgame weapons? How come almost everyone of those bounties requires PvE and PvP elements? It's almost as though Bungie wanted to reward players who play both aspects of the game... What a weird idea. And the way I define endgame is the hardest hard mode. And whatever you need to be successful in that mode is endgame gear. There was a ridiculously noticeable difference in the games of IB than in normal control. Skill mattered a lot. If you didn't notice, no skin off my nose. If you play PvP, the Iron Banner was the reason you even leveled anything in your PvP load out. The reason I brought up the blue shotty is because without the Iron Banner, is there ANY incentive to upgrade the damage or armor on anything? Do anything outside of the perks even matter? Well I think that the intention of this game was that people were supposed to shoot for the best gear, because at some point it would matter. Otherwise, there is no reason to ever have anything upgraded beyond perk level in crucible. That's the way I see it.

This just shows that you are heavily PVE oriented. Anyone who has played a PVP game knows the difference between normalized and blatantly OP PVE no-restriction game types. Example Guild wars 2. WvWvW had [u]no PVE gear restrictions[/u]. Just like Iron Banner. You had better gear you, you had better chance of success even WITH skill. Normalized PVP was just that.[u] Everyone and everything was set to a standard[/u] so that people would be on an even playing field, outside of course for class special mechanics, just like how we see the Huntard/LOLock/Frightan arguments. The more you post the more I can see how heavily PVE oriented your mindset is. PVP is and should not be affected by PVE, that's why so many people argue about keeping them separate when it comes to balance and why? Because skill should be the only factor contributing to a win or loss; not gear, not level advantages, etc. That's why real PVP does not need or ever should have any PVE level corruption/gear advantage in it. Why else do you see the constant crying on here about nerf Gun X, buff Gun Y? Endgame PVP? The only time that would ever occur is in paid tournaments with prize pools WITH normalized and standard rule sets. [quote]Well I think that the intention of this game was that people were supposed to shoot for the best gear, because at some point it would matter. Otherwise, there is no reason to ever have anything upgraded beyond perk level in crucible. [/quote] That intention is and was only aimed at PVE and Iron banner (to make all the PVE "Gods" feel relevant and necessary in a PVP setting). [quote]The reason I brought up the blue shotty is because without the Iron Banner, is there ANY incentive to upgrade the damage or armor on anything? Do anything outside of the perks even matter?[/quote] This is exactly how it should be. Why should there be a level advantage, again, in normalized and actual PVP? The perks are things that can be obtained by everyone or at least easier to obtain. Not everyone plays and can easily obtain PVE materials, some people play just for the PVP portion of the game to begin with. So how is that fair to them? This is also why there are 2 DISTINCT game modes: PVE and PVP. Iron Banner is only a culmination of the two.

Wow... Translation: "I disagree, bc REASONS!" Good one bud. Well thought out, articulated, and presented. I'm sure your college professor would be proud of this example of transferring critical thinking into an articulated response.

Rofl, what was that? [quote]OP was correct in his annoyance. And you're all jackasses for disagreeing.[/quote] The sound of your intelligence dropping.

LOL... reeses, you sir, are n IDIOT. as already posted Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris the perks. sheeesh, I feel sorry for your future.

Yeah dumbass the dot on the thorn, the stability and accuracy on the last word, the tracking on the truth the wolf pack rounds on the ghorn, that's what makes these guns more useful and fun in the crucible. Pull your head out of your exterior!