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originally posted in:Secular Sevens
3/14/2013 6:08:05 AM
28
Does anyone know if he suports the use of condoms. Thats almost all the thing that I care now.
English
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To help prevent the spread of disease, yes.
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But not as a contraceptive? I told you he was out of touch.
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[quote]More than 99% of women 15–44 years of age who have ever had sexual intercourse with a male (referred to as ‘‘sexually experienced women’’) have used at least one contraceptive method.[/quote] [url=http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_029.pdf]Use of Contraception in the United States: 1982-2008 - CDC[/url]
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Does that include that ridiculous 'Family Planning' thing the Church usually pushes?
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Family planning?
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Natural family planning is a non contraceptive form of birth control advocated by the Church. There are many variations of it, though the most widely publicized form of NFP is also the worst method, so most people think it doesn't work.
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Wait, so it's alright to have sex despite trying as hard as you can to avoid a pregnancy, as long as the man ejaculates inside the women? What the actual -blam!-?
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You didn't even know what NFP was before I explained it, so you're in no position to criticize the Church's teaching regarding it.
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Isn't it just periods of abstinence during the most fertile times of a woman's menstrual cycle with unprotected sexual activity during the periods when pregnancy is unlikely to result?
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It's a little more complicated then that, I don't know the exact details of the more effective methods.
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Your point?
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That he's out of touch.
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So people who disagree with you are out of touch, then?
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No, people who are trying to enforce outdated ideals that just about everybody has moved on from are out of touch.
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Why do you get to decide what is outdated, and what is not?
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It's pretty easily demonstrable. One, there is nothing immoral about using sex for enjoyment and not for procreation (if there is any evidence against this, please, let me know). Given this, it is clearly preferable that unwanted pregnancies do not result from sex. Contraception serves to provide this end without any further negative consequences, and it is thus perfectly moral.
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In your [i]opinion[/i].
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Edited by Florence: 3/17/2013 6:27:38 PMWell if morality is dictated by opinion, then I guess Seggi is right by saying that the fact that 99% sexually active of women believe in contraception implies that contraception is moral and that the Pope is out of touch. Shit, now your only choice it to come up with an objective, reasonable justification for your beliefs. But I guess we wouldn't want your entire ideology crashing down like that.
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Oh, I don't believe morality is dictated by opinions. But from your secular standpoint, there really is no other way for you to view it.
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Well then my claim of ''contraception is not moral,'' if it is not determined by any subjective/opinionated means, is either true or false. And if you believe it's false, you should be able to rationally justify this belief. And please, don't tell me how I have to view something. To my knowledge, you know absolutely nothing about my beliefs on epistemology or ethics. If you'd like to know, just ask. Don't make wild, baseless guesses as to what I believe.
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Why don't we ask the 99% of sexually active women in the US?
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Isn't that one of them fancy fallacies you guys like to point out all the time? Ad populum, I believe? And why only cite women, and not men?
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It's not argumentum ad populum to cite the opinions of an overwhelming majority of the population when the entire point is that he's detached from the opinion of the overwhelming majority of the population...
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Isn't it? You're saying that he is wrong / out of touch, because of what the majority thinks. But people thinking something does not make it true. Everyone thought the Earth was flat once, that didn't make the Earth flat.
