Kingsfall has more complicated mechanics, all salvation is, is stepping on and off a plate when you need to and knowing verity which there are websites that will tell you exactly what to do, despite those the actual mechanics for verity are insanely easy I've never used the sites. If people went in and tried they would see how easy it is honestly.

Kings fall is one of the easiest raids wym

King's fall is simpler in the scope that there are "jobs" that you perform. & comms/ callouts are clearer to understand. (people not getting lost) Easy Kings fall Ex: - Me stepping on a plate = I potentially hold the aura. - Me Shooting golg's back = he looks & shoots darts at me. - After Warpriest DPS > Stand behind a pillar. - Run to totem > Run to plate > Run to balcony > Repeat. These roles are easy to understand, simple to pull off, and there is always a constant visual of your teammates doing it at the same time making it easier to visually understand the process. Salvation's Edge....(While easy when you learn it & get used to it)....Doesn't guide you like any other raid & is hard to explain all at once since there are 3 parts to the each encounter. 2nd encounter: Part 1: Kill adds, Kill 2nd wave of adds, Bounce plate twice Part 2: Called to reckoning, shoot blights, shoot taniks face, *overlapping callout for pillar* Part 3: pick up shapes, shoot pillar, run to the deposit box, DPS. 3rd Encounter Part 1 Kill Tormentors, read pillar callout, Bounce plates, *Watch for turrets* Part 2: fail & spawn subjugator, kill subby, pick up shapes & close. Part 3: *watch for turrets*, deposit, kill unstop, open door....repeat part 1 in new room. (oh and closing plates are in different locations :] ) YOU have to know these steps, there is very little room for repeat failure in an attempt. (And more importantly you have to be good enough to hold your own) And for some reason people do not watch Youtube Guides to even begin to familiarize themselves with the mechanics. (and some of the guides SUCKKKKKKK) [b]And having to explain it all at once like that [/b](2nd or 3rd encounter) or [b]explain it while you're rushing the clock & rushing your learning-teammate,[/b] does not make learning the encounters any easier.

It still literally boils down to stand on plate at correct time for encounter 2 and 3, and again verity has been made simple by websites. I've done my fair share of sherpas in here and its not bad at all.

[quote]It still literally boils down to stand on plate at correct time for encounter 2 and 3, and again verity has been made simple by websites. I've done my fair share of sherpas in here and its not bad at all.[/quote] And i've done my fair share of LFG'ing including Salvation's Edge. And some people can't even grasp calling out symbols during rhulk encounter. [u]My point i am making is:[/u] [b]So many people mess up or fail to execute the easiest raid mechanics in easier raids. [/b] & this game hasn't ever had a raid that made you multitask like Salvation's does. [quote]It still literally boils down to stand on plate at correct time for encounter[/quote] Yes it does. And there are added responsibilities that people don't want to take up which results in difficulty completing those encounters as i detailed above. | ---> This is made extremely apparent in Verity where... -People don't pick up ghosts. - People don't wait to hear which ghost to pick up & just pick up a random one - People don't know where to deposit their shapes despite being told how to do inside room. - People getting overwhelmed because now there's 3 shapes on their wall (because of distributing) and just forget what their next step was. [b]A lot of the LFG raiding community (in my experiences) don't want added responsibility, and this has been the case for years even in D1. Which Salvation's Edge exacerbates this dilemma to a higher degree. [/b]

Lol I'm gonna put it like this i have 10x the experience in lfg than you do, you have a 150 odd full clears i have 1500+ in lfg, i never run into these issues ever i have almost as many runs in just SE in lfg than you do total. Maybe its the groups you choose, but I personally do not run into these issues.

No one cares. Clear numbers means nothing.

Your comment means nothing, we were talking experience meaning I have more.....

Cool. Still doesn’t mean anything.

[quote]Lol I'm gonna put it like this i have 10x the experience in lfg than you do, you have a 150 odd full clears i have 1500+ in lfg, i never run into these issues ever i have almost as many runs in just SE in lfg than you do total. Maybe its the groups you choose, but I personally do not run into these issues.[/quote] And i saw your raid report as well, well before you made this reply. I'm going to put it like this. I'm not going to go into full explanation of my IRL problems as that is TMI & not relevant to the conversation. [b]Simply put if I was in better physical condition I would be raiding my heart out right now. ( I raided so much in D1 i almost have more clears in it than i do in D2)[/b] ....and it wouldn't matter, I would still run into these players that don't care about being taught/ can't learn the raid (Just as i did back in D1) The amount of clears you have [u]& low # of sherpas in some of your highest cleared raids [/u]show me why you say things like:[quote]but I personally do not run into these issues.[/quote] [quote]I've done my fair share of sherpas in here and its not bad at all.[/quote] [quote] If people went in and tried they would see how easy it is honestly.[/quote] [quote]Maybe its the groups you choose, but I personally do not run into these issues.[/quote] Well of course you don't!!! you surround yourself with competent people and are able to clear a high # of times. No wonder why you don't see it often. You're not dealing with bottom of the barrel players who enter your LFG's or the LFG you joined. And if you do then It doesn't matter because you are able to overwhelmingly "Wash it out" with a high # of clears. The # of clears you have only tells me that most people in your teams are competent enough to clear which automatically excludes you from this conversation about low-skill players attempting this raid. Because YOUR the exception. The people around you do not apply. There are so many incompetent people who enter raids in Destiny. Even when given the benefit of the doubt or so many chances & corrections and still don't do the job that is assigned to them (either flat out not even try, or can't grasp the job they have to do) [b]If SE was easy & approachable (for the wider destiny audience). This conversation wouldn't even be happening in the first place.[/b] And that isn't even limited to SE. Look at Rite of the Nine!!! [b]Bungie is implementing Explorer mode for Dungeons as if Dungeons are hard!....That should be evidence enough![/b] The Destiny Community (at large) needs a lower-skill difficulty just to onboard them for endgame content like raids & dungeons. (nothing wrong with that, but the fact needs to be stated.) I have had really good experiences teaching people this raid because they were willing to learn. And i have had really bad experiences of people joining just to "try it out" or something (impaired, slow, rude, distracted, whatever the reason was). And that isn't just limited to SE.

I will not argue against your post because most of what you said is true, I do play with people at my skill level and it does make things infinitely easier, however I do random lfg a lot or I wouldn't have such high clears so I do also know some people are just bad. There are ways to circumvent this such as having them do nothing something like SE I'll give third as an example, I either send or close two plates while the bad player just ad clears. But I just wanted to say thanks for the debate without arguing lol the guy who tried to reply to our conversation tried to insinuate I was carried lol.

[quote]I will not argue against your post because most of what you said is true, I do play with people at my skill level and it does make things infinitely easier, however I do random lfg a lot or I wouldn't have such high clears so I do also know some people are just bad. There are ways to circumvent this such as having them do nothing something like SE I'll give third as an example, I either send or close two plates while the bad player just ad clears. But I just wanted to say thanks for the debate without arguing lol the guy who tried to reply to our conversation tried to insinuate I was carried lol.[/quote] As someone who loved to raid back in D1, and as someone who loves to raid in D2 and can't because my body can no longer tolerate the stress. I just want more people to be able to complete the encounter or the activity. Having to fish people around & filter them out. Or in your case, do the job for them is just so exhausting & ruins my enjoyment of the activity. I've done that in trials for so long, I don't want to do that in raids either. I wanna play the game, and cooperate with my team, not take control of the steering wheel every time just to ensure success. it was a solid conversation with you. Hopefully you continue to raid & enjoy the game if you still do. *So many people in destiny & on the forums just like to argue to start something or argue for no reason.

I get that especially as I'm getting older. But the old addage if you want something done right do it yourself seems to hold true for me. I get its not for everyone, I also get raiding isn't for everyone. I do still think that's true as raids are more for the higher end players, which is fine I'm a firm believer that not everything is for everyone. Like pvp ill never be pinnacle in pvp and don't mind even when the lighthouse was harder to get to i wouldn't go unless friends took me which they have was unobtainable solo.