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Edited by The White Rabbit:
10/14/2022 4:53:41 PM
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A warning before the next disaster: New Player Experience is about to become unplayable.
EDIT: I found the real problem with subclasses, the total cost per character hovers around 1.4 million glimmer, varying due to number of abilities.
This cost I would be… ok with… if and ONLY IF we get rid of Ikora. In the past when we unlocked a new ability (Stasis being the exception) we could simply go to our subclass screen and click it on. Going forward to making this a better experience, way more streamlined while keeping it classical is the ABILITY TO BUY ALL SUBCLASS ABILITIES FROM THE SUBCLASS SCREEN. Having to fly to the tower just to buy a new fragment for three subclasses, let alone three characters, sucks. There you have it. My solution, which even I’m not 100% behind due to costs, to drastically improve the new light experience.
Yesterday I did a thing. Rabbits are always doing things, but this was a gut-check. It resulted in a meme-tacular oof.
Yesterday I redid my hunter. Least advanced of my characters, did it before to test the new light experience. After that and today’s TWAB I have come to an inescapable conclusion: the New Light experience IS NOT SUSTAINABLE and IT’S GOING TO BECOME WORSE.
First off let’s start with ability costs. With a full 250k I could at Best Buy only half of one subclass. This is beyond ridiculous. A new player starting with 0 glimmer won’t even be able to buy a jump, a grenade or a melee of which they get from the beginning ONE OF EACH. No choices, you’re given that and that’s all you get.
‘But rabbit, this hails back to D1 where you had to earn everything’ and no it doesn’t. D1 unlocks came from XP and resources were very strict. You were guaranteed to have almost an entire if not entire subclass by the time you cleared the Black Garden.
Now take a look at being a new light. You’re thrown into things with people who were practically given every ability with minimal effort. As it stands new lights are going to be slaughtered in pvp. Unable to even try nightfalls. This is only taking into account the economy, if you want the real horror story add in mods and gear.
This is a multiplayer game meant to be played by multiple players. If one is simply lacking necessary items and the only Avenue is insane amounts of both grinding AND luck, they’re just -blam!-, pardon my French. Would a raid team want to carry someone how doesn’t even have a basic jump for mobility or grenade for add clear? Not unless they are forming specifically for that role.
And how about the new player? Would you want to keep grinding just for a grenade that’s helpful, only to realize you don’t have a certain mod to make it effective? Or how about an activity with a champion you have no way of controlling?
Now let’s talk about what you’re about to do: bottleneck everyone with shards. Leveling multiple characters I rarely have more than 200 shards. Shards that come from legendary drops. Drops that come from activities you are pressed to do without mods. Mods that come from higher activities you simply can not do or need shards to purchase.
You see where I’m coming from here? These changes won’t mean anything to Joe_tryhard_001 with tens of thousands of shards. But Joe had his abilities easily earned. His gear dropping upgrades that didn’t require modules or shards. Now let me ask you: did you make this game for Joe? Just for Joe? No, according to your occasional vidocs, you didn’t.
The Holiday season is coming. New players may come with new consoles/PCs. Potential sales. I’m not saying give everything away immediately. But the grind and demand on a new player is guaranteed to be a huge turnoff. Worse yet, I didn’t even mention expansions, did I? Yeah, this all compounds.
Action must be taken. Not in season 19, not after the break, not with Lightfall, but RIGHT -blam!- NOW, again pardon the French. You are setting up a cataclysmic disaster. Get on top of it now.
English
#destiny2
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Edited by Ragnar-The-High: 10/14/2022 4:09:13 AMI agree with you whole heartedly. I also do not believe it's over dramatic. I have helped people who have just started, multiple people and it's not an easy task at all. The grind is significantly harder now that so much content meant to act as a tutorial has been removed. You are thrown into witch queen at this point if you bought and which you kinda have to unless you want to be eons behind. New players would have no clue what's going on story wise or what weapons are good or builds and then adapt to whatever bungie has decided to nerf that week. Some people will just dismiss all these facts and say "oh they need to research" or " we did it didn't we" but they obviously have blinders on which isn't always there fault. I mean imagine telling some to forget years worth of a game and delete all there stuff. But the ask for new players boils down to this: research hours of story if you want to know what's happening, hours more for current metas and best roads to take to get there, buy over a hundred dollars of expansions to have the ability to grind for stuff, unlock all the subclasses and do associated missions. And to top it all of deal with fairly toxic community while trying to do all this people saying oh its easy.
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I tried getting my friends to play Destiny and the longest any of them lasted was a month. They found it confusing and grindy. This was after content vaulting. For me it's different. Destiny has its hooks in me and has for a long time. I know the lore and if there's something I don't know I know where to find it. And when it comes to grinding, I enjoy it. I'm an old Diablo 2 player and that game perfected grinding for loot. It doesn't bother me as much as it does other people... although Destiny has been burning me out more than it used to.
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New Light as of June 2022. Totally agree.
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8 RepliesI wouldn't recommend this game to anyone.
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1 ReplyDestiny is NOT fun for new players. I tried introducing my friends to it, and they got so lost, so confused, so annoyed that they gave up after about half an hour.
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Edited by Atreuss: 10/16/2022 5:18:47 AMThey had to make Ikora useful. She hasn't done anything for a long time. They came up with a class vender and slapped glimmer on it. I agree though. They need to dump the glimmer cost. But knowing bungie, they would change the currency to shards to unlock those skills.....smh I just don't feel really good with these changes bungie are making with currency. They are eliminating any easily obtainable ones and then trying to use psychology to justify this. Making it easier on new players? Who do they think they are fooling? Did they actually pay someone to come up with this idea? I can just see them with sitting there trying to figure more ways to keep you logged into the game. Well yeah, Now go grind endless hours for gear to break down for shards. More mind numbing grind and new players will love this? I Stopped playing when witch queen launched. Then came back at the end of the second season. I am bored to death and barely log in now. I was kind of looking forward to lightfall, but now I don't know. I guess we will see the state of the game by then. I know my husband and I will not preorder, but wait to see the drama first.
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Edited by mistahbrice: 10/16/2022 4:24:13 AMI can understand how new players may feel overwhelmed and want to quit. Even I feel that way too and I can't do certain quests on my own. The person who introduced me to this game got frustrated because he felt like he had to do all the work. The person told me never again will he play with me. I end up playing on my own and I learned as I go.
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Thank U oh prophet for this gift from the traveller... The future of destiny! [spoiler]I didn't read that, no[/spoiler]
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4 RepliesThis has been a thing since the begining of witch queen tbh. Managed to convince my brother to give destiny a go at the start of this new expansion. Even with my help, he lasted all of 2 weeks before he quit. Why? Because the new player experience is damn well near incomprehensible. You muddle past the cosmodrome and you are just dropped into the thick of it. The poor lad jumped into the grasp of averice dungeon, straight from completing the New light stuff and got all the will to play kicked outta him, he had no exotics, no legendary kit, he was packing blues and greens Ive said it before, bungie need to explain their systems better for new players. As it is, it's an absolute shower of manure
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1 Reply-- GDPR: removed by user request --
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4 RepliesI"m not a fan of the current system, granted its pretty easy for the old timers. I think abilities should be earned by playing. Want to upgrade your melee? Go punch stuff. Aspects are pretty cheap as is but could be tied into a mission like the one we had when we lost our light at the beginning of D2. You just get rewarded with an Aspect of the current subclass your running. Add the fragments to lost sector chests, strikes, gambit, crucible etc. with a high drop rate for the subclass your running that you could then take to Ikora and pick the fragment you want. Its not a perfect solution but negates the glimmer cost for the new players. This just got me thinking how garbled the actual story line must be for Destiny 2 now. Would I even recognize the story if I deleted an alt and started over?
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This seems to be a curse across the board with these types of games. Warframe suffers from this as well (not exactly the same, but new players being lost, confused, and not knowing what to do is similar enough). However, in the case of D2 this seems....completely avoidable. The issue with D2's new player experience isn't something hard baked into the game like Warframe, its the devs making active choices. Why do we need to grind obscene amounts of glimmer to unlock basic abilities? Why does focusing for an event that comes around twice a season cost 100 legendary shards? Why are incredibly important combat mods locked behind RNG of multiple layers? Why are new players not given anything even close to a synopsis of the events that lead up to the current game? Why do new players need to spend well over $100 to play all the content in the game? These are all EASILY avoidable problems, but the devs just...don't seem to care. They are much more interested in just stacking more -blam!- onto the pile which we all know is built on -blam!- plywood because they had to remove old, paid, content from the game JUST SO IT DIDN'T BREAK EVERY FIVE MINUTES. D2 was not a game built to last as long as it has and it SHOWS.
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1 ReplyYour bang on right new light experience is really bad I introduced my freind to the game a few month back he was like so how do I make my build like yours I said you carnt yet he said why because I Need to level up I can do that quick I reckon, I was like no you have to buy some abilities from the tower and wait for some of the mods on my armor to be with ada1a vendor but it's on daily rotation you carnt unlock them buy leveling up or from activities I believe that was the last time he played 😆 🤣
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2 RepliesBungie’s generating >4x more revenues from in-game transactions than they do with direct sales. Hence, they don’t really care about new light players, especially this far and this late into the product life cycle. If anything, they have to be careful to the mass of loyal customers who are getting bored and upset with Bungie’s modus operandi.
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4 RepliesThis is only half of the problem too. I just recently had a friend of mine from work download and try out the game (I've been plying since D1). He was so very confused on what was going on on the story. Almost nothing gets explained and everything just assumes you know all about past events. I had to send him a FOUR hour long video that tells the story from the behind D1 to the start of witch queen. He almost gave up multiple times. The promise of doing raids with my clan was the only thing keeping him afloat. The new light experience needs fixed on both fronts. The story is utter nonsense and the grind is ridiculous and will probably get worse.
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14 RepliesOh no. 16.000-20.000 glimmer per event gets you about 1 fragment per event. Its not like new players need everything day 1.
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3 RepliesIt’s ok - they’ll only have to grind out 41 heroic public events to fill the glimmer back. By the time they have done the few hundred it takes to buy all their bits and pieces they will understand that the grind is perfectly balanced, and they will promptly stop by eververse to purchase some silver.
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1 ReplyThey make you buy jumps? Ffs
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Bungie said they want to allow new light to jump in to the game, even giving free armour and weapons at HELM. To get there you have to complete series of quests which are so boring, tedious and discouraging. I am amazed we are actually getting any new light!
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15 RepliesEdited by Genetics518: 10/14/2022 3:00:59 PMWhy is everyone so concerned about the new player experience? This game will be gone soon enough. They’re already working on the new IPO I’ve heard and destiny franchise only had a 10 year plan. There’s a couple more things on the “redacted” 😂 time line and that’ll be the fat lady singing for this money pit. Edit: also with the game free to play why not let people experience the game for themselves then decide if they wanna commit the hundreds of dollars necessary to get into a going on six year old game?
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Edited by TwelveBz: 10/15/2022 12:29:33 AM
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3 RepliesAll mods should always all be available for purchase from the content vault where old exotics are. There's absolutely zero good reason to hide mods behind a random rotation for new or returning players. All subclass abilities that were a part of any given subclass should be 100% free to obtain from Ikora. You should only have to buy the abilities that were part of the other subclasses, like we all did when we got 3.0. Bang, I have mostly solved everything.
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Thankfully glimmer is going to be much more easy to obtain next season. Public events giving 16k-20k glimmer per completion without ghost mods means that new lights can obtain lots of glimmer quickly without needing massive resource stockpiles. Jumps should be basically free though. If they need a cost 50-250 glimmer each should be the maximum. That’s just dumb. Shards on the other hand are crazy restrictive right now. I thankfully have a huge stockpile (74k right now) but I really feel for new players. Focusing costs for Trials and Iron banner are way too high. Seasonal focusing is a bit better but requires seasonal currencies on top of it. Bungie needs to halve it for everything. I’ve seen my shards decrease by 1k every season since Beyond Light. It’s only gotten worse since WQ.
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1 ReplyLEts get stats on how many new light try the game, then stay as regular players. All these people talking about someone elses experience being bad.. yet very few actually talking about it from a first person point of view. We all started playing the game and had to earn our place. Why is it that new players should automatically have it easy to gain everything to be on par with players who played for 7 years? Maybe pvp is going to be rough, why wouldn't it be rough when you just start, have nothing and havn't earned any waeapons or gear? Maybe NF are going to be extremely difficult becuase of the same reasons. Why shouldn't these players be playing strikes gambit and patrol to gain levels, experience, glimmer etc and become familiar with the game jsut as the rest of us did? We don't need to elevate players early on just to appease them or we end up with a bunch of crybabies over every change that ads any level of difficulty in grind etc. LEarn from the beginning what type of game this is and either stay for it, or leave for games that are more suited to the players liking.
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Let them make the disaster. The game is already sliding closer to oblivion. Let them push it in.
