Why do people get mad at a sunbreakers cauterize perk but a bladedancers hungering blade stays? Sunbreakers are are just "ranged solar bladedancers"...

This is not a very effective control test to base your argument on due to mayhem being accelerated super charge and sunbreaker being based on using its super. Now don't get me wrong I'm not defending the sunbreaker(personally I despise it) I've used it a little to test it (before deleting my titan). And I have multiple friends who main titans who argue that the sunbreaker is exceedingly unbalanced even for not having many perks for outside their super. They will argue that hammer of sol is unbalanced and should be adjusted a little. If you're going to argue somethings ability please do a more proper "control" testing and then if you want other tests to prove points.

Another whining hunter. Not surprised.

Thats cute that you used a [b]mayhem[/b] game to show how "utterly overpowered they are." Let me break this down for you. Mayhem is super based seeing as you get your super by stand in still for ~30 seconds. Sunbreaker is a super based class. Dr the problem? You put a subclass, where it is absolutely at its prime, and called it over powered. Take the subclass and play a normal game of control. Something when you can't get your super for your analysis. As the super is getting older, people are more reliably shutting it down. Not only that, but the subclass outside the super is weak. We don't say that the super isn't strong, or powerful, but it certainly is within reason because of how weak the subclass performs outside of its super (during neutral play).

Wait.. So Fist of Panic (aka I-Came-In-Like-A-Fuuuuuuckkkking-Nuuuuuke) (aka The Double Bumper Stumper) (aka "u phockin wut m9") was not OP? I'm confused

I think hammer of sol is balanced, not because titans were underpowered in year one, but because the entire subclass is dedicated to making the super extremely powerful. 2 perks in the skill tree do not effect the super in anyway.

You know what super isn't strong in crucible anymore? Fist of havoc. Ever try and kill a stormtrancer with it? You don't.

We aren't defending it because of Year one PVP. (At least I'm not) we're defending it because Sunbreakers literally only have their Supers. Their perks are pretty crappy and the only good perks are ones designed for the super. Not to mention our grenades still aren't that great and we still have the arm reach of a T-Rex. Take our super away and the Sunbreaker is a really bad subclass.

[quote]Titans: TITANS ARE THE TANK CLASS SCRUB! [spoiler]but we can move the fastest [/spoiler] [spoiler]jump the highest[/spoiler] [spoiler]have the best recovery passives[/spoiler] Titans: hungering blade op, pls nerf [spoiler]unless we have an upgraded version, then its alright[/spoiler] Titans: omg fusion grenades Op [spoiler]unless we have it[/spoiler] Titans: arc blade is too hard to kill, running isn't an acceptable strategy, it's a roaming super that I have to shotgun melee to take down [spoiler]unless we have it, and it has a ranged attack with more armor, proximity, tracking and an upgraded hungering blade, then you just need to learn to adjust bc you are scrubby [/spoiler] Titans: glitching a super is bad in PvP [spoiler]unless it's our super, then we're cool with it[/spoiler] Titans: lol hunters are so whiny [spoiler]we were only just expressing our frustration for the last year everywhere, that's different[/spoiler] Titans: we have no melee abilities at all! [spoiler]except for the ohk melee with a 3 second cool down that has health regen on kill, that doesn't count, even though it's counted as a melee, it's not, bc I wish to feel undervalued[/spoiler] Titans: WE ARE THE MASTER CLASS\RACE [spoiler]unless I want to be underpowered, then we've been undervalued to far too long[/spoiler] All the credit goes to timelordlogan for creation of this masterpiece[/quote]...

Titans were boring in year one. Now they are exciting and I actually have fun running away from them when they activate their super XD sooo... Stop annoying Titans. Btw I don't use a Titan... Ever anymore

The titian class has more default armor so that plus the damage reduction should make it hard to kill..the hammers don't really track..health regen is a perk stop crying op

Everyone is throwing out these arguments about how the sunsingers get the same armor and blade dancers get the health regen. We those are 2 separate classes.. The au breaker gets both if those rolled Into 1 with homing ranged attacks. With a warlock you have to aim your nades and a blade dancer you are melee... Reduce the hammers to like 3 per super in pvp. Problem solved

The only time I would ever say a Sunbreaker is balanced is if it had the same amount of protons and electrons.

Titans are great in there own thing~ PVE-They can provide a powerful buff (Defender) PVP-They can make a path for a runner (Hammer of Sol) Warlocks are amazing at their own thing~ PVE-They can Self Resurrect in a clutch moment (Radiance) PVP-They are amazing at clearing guardians (Stormtrance) Hunters are amazing at their own thing~ PVE-They can provide a powerful debuff (Nightstalker) PVP-Can scare the living h-ell out of guardians with Golden Gun and have them running (Golden Gun)

I'm all for the suggestion that we get 3 hammers like GG.....provided they have the .0000000001 second TTK the GG has. 90% of the time when I activate my hammers the map empties and I may get 1 or 2 kills.

nah it's totally "balanced"

[quote][quote][quote]Consider the following. [b]TITANS ARE JUST FINALLY FILLING THEIR INTENDED ROLE[/b] 55% reduction is the standard for Radiant Skin Sunsingers and Sunbreakers The thing is that most Sunbreakers spec for max armor, and will opt for Armor boosting gear when using their only PVP sub class. Since Titans in year 1, never were really seen walking around with their supers for that long (Defender just stayed put, and Strikers were 1 and done). Most people are not used to high armor characters. Titan's armor, will always out class every other class for armor. So we don't have a super problem we have a mind set problem. The health regen isn't an issue because its a perk, that requires a kill, just like hungering blade for blade dancers. The reason why it extends to all the titan abilities is because their melee is useless. Now the reason why blade dancers die during their super is because hungering blade is the best perk to use period, and that perk is useless with low recovery. Since Hunters focus on agility, the only good build is to try to max recovery and agility, (also agility because it helps them get to their target quicker). Now we have the polarizing character. A high armor beast. Titans can not get max agility and recovery, so they will focus on Armor and recovery since it mixes better with cauterize. People are just not used to that. A [u][b]weak[/b][/u] argument would be "Titan Skating", ok fine, but titan skating doesn't work well on all maps. Sector 618, for example, Titan skating is next to impossible. The low ceilings trip them up and you don't typically want to risk it for the mid section where a miss timed burst leads to a very Super Mario death. Maps like Banner Fall and Pantheon where there are high ceilings and lots of straight lines are good for Titan Skating. So with the limit map selection where titan skating is a variable option, it is a non-factor. OK so lets address the head shots. In Naroon's Video, [url]https://youtu.be/Tg8B4R3zRuo[/url] It was well done, but it never accounted for radiant skin Sunsingers. This is HUGE. It changes the way Sunsingers are used. Firebourne Sunsingers are REACTIVE, and Radiant Skin are PROACTIVE. Meaning one is going to go hunting (Radiant Skin) and one is going for revenge (Firebourne), That being said Sunsingers can get the same armor boosting perks like sunbreakers that give a further boost to their armor. Add flame shield to the mix and they have armor that eclipses the Sunbreaker. During standard PVP, (not IB or ToO), they can rock a RAM on top of all that as well and just be stupid tanky. At this point snipers headshots won't matter like sun breakers. Now if you factor in cauterize the debate shifts to what is better ARMOR or RECOVERY? Consider this, Cauterize will disengage after they next shot the titan will take. Think of the Red Death Perk, Its great if you run into 1 person, but after a group its not so good. Where as Flame shield is applied INSTANTLY. Flame shield roughly adds 75 extra HP to the Sunsinger. When all is said and done a Sunbreaker max effective health pool is at 215 with 55% Damage reduction, and a Sunsinger can have a potiential max health pool of 300+ with the 55% Damage reduction. AKA Soaking the Sleeper Simulant. I hope this can further explain why sunbreakers are not as OP as people say they are, they are merely a paradigm shift in how crucible is being approached. As a community we have to accept that the health pool is now deeper than it was before, and that doesn't mean its "unbalanced", since the water is always level at the top. [b][u]EDIT[/b][/u] [url]https://youtu.be/Fu6rVyQ3gUo[/url] Datto's research into damage reduction based off of Rocket launchers. [b][u]TL;DR[/b][/u] 1. Sunsingers = Sunbreakers damage reduction. Illusions of greater damage reduction is because of Titan's naturally higher armor stat. 2. Sunsingers can stack more armor if built correctly. (Radiant Skin + Flame Shield + Solar Subclass Armor + Ram) (Even with out ram and solar sun class armor, a sunsinger that activates flame shield can soak a Sleeper Simulant shot, a Sunbreaker can not) 3. Bladedancer = Sunbreakers= Since hungering blade works just like cauterize its based off of recovery. A bladedancer can not max Armor and Recovery, so most spec for as much agility and recovery, meaning their already lowest armor class doesn't appear to have the same damage soaking potiential. 4. Sunbreakers are not op, its just a symptom of high armor becoming in style for PVP, instead of the year of blinky jumpy builds.[/quote] [b][u]originally posted by echelon730[/u][/b][/quote][/quote]