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12/29/2016 5:47:46 PM
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Snipers take more skill....so please make them easier to use again. (rampant sniper hypocrisy)
You realize this is all that is really being said by all these 'sniper buff' people right?
Can someone please make a rational counter argument as to why the title statement is not true?
From what I can see any argument to buff snipers back is largely [b]hypocritical [/b]ESPECIALLY when usually in the same sentence you're asking for a shotgun nerf.
Most of the 'arguments' for sniper buffs come from the mentality that they want to be able to counter shotguns. This makes no sense at all. Snipers are long range and shotguns are close range. Other than a sniper taking out a shotgunner from a distance there is no overlap here. Shotguns cannot threaten a sniper on their own.
This also leads into the mention that somehow the flinch changes allowed shotguns to rise up more. This is only partially true but in the usual sniper bias way they're leaving out an important part.
Before the changes Sniper rifles were being chosen above most other weapons (Primary or special) in the closer ranges because of their 'safer' 1HK potential. Now that their harder to use people moved to the weapons that [b]actually are supposed to be used[/b] in those situation. Including shotguns.
Then of course there's the Title of the post. "Snipers take more skill".
That in and of itself is undeniable. It's a single bullet precision weapon used in the longest ranges.
So then why was it OK that they were the optimal choice in other ranges? Simply because it took a different skill set to use them that way? Yet many of the same people want to Nerf the range of shotguns?
Sorry but that's completely hypocritical even if you include the different skills it takes to be good at both weapons.
The map design point comes up a lot too. Most maps are too small to viably use a sniper rifle as it is now.
So basically you're looking to force weapon viability into a scenario where it doesn't fit? Why? So you can have your 'safer' 1HK weapon as opposed to a riskier 1HK weapon? Even more hypocritical.
Sniper and shotguns shouldn't even be in the same sentence or compared in any way other than their 1HK potential which are used at completely different ranges.
TL;DR: Sniper buff protagonists are hypocrites in regards to why they want snipers buffed. Especially when they are combined with shotgun nerf requests.
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1 Reply1 It's idiotic the way they implemented flinch, the scope doesn't move but you reticle does. 2 Right now if you see a sniper in the other team you can pretty much rush him with a shotgun for a free kill. 3 Shotguns take zero skill. They have a reticle the size of China. 4 Snipers are the hardest thing to master. 5 Have you ever seen someone using a shotgun like a god and said I wish I could do the same? No because everyone can do it. 6 Try sniping like kraftyy or another top sniper and see how that goes. 7 Shotguns are boring
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1 ReplyShotguns take no skill to use... so keep them where they r
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9 RepliesEdited by Nea: 1/20/2017 4:10:07 AMJust reduce the flinch so literally if I get touched by a feather I don't jerk up, buff primaries, nerf pulse range, no need for a shotgun nerf
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I've encounter a sniper countless times using a sniper rifle like a hand cannon. Should not be as easy as turning a corner and quick scoping people. It's getting ridiculous when everyone runs around with either snipers or universal remote
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3 RepliesBump for accuracy
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I've been saying the same thing ever since snipers got nerfed. If they're so skillful to use then why are you bitching for it to be easier? That's why I've been staying in battlefield more because if you wanna snipe of takes a much larger degree of skill than destiny's sniping. Hell only reasons I ever bother with destiny anymore is iron banner (which is worthless now IMO) combined arms, and the occasional raid or nightfall. Other than that it's battlefield, nothing more satisfying than road killing a kid on top of a blimp with your fighters landing gear. 👌🏼😂
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1 ReplyLol almost downvoted this until I realized it's satirical
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5 RepliesPrimaries need to be buffed. Don't stray from the actual issue at hand. OP just jealous because he gets shit on by snipers that know how to camp lanes. Special weapons are not weapons of skill. They're weapons of opportunity. Don't get it twisted
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1 ReplyThis get's way too much attention. it is just another different version of "I walked into a sniper lane and died, but I hit a shot so I should be the winner of this engagement" It is coming from a shotgun-player with 670 (!) sniper kills in crucible you can complain about sniping when you actually tried it! learn to slide, jump and flank -> snipers won't bother you anymore
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2 RepliesBecause the people who played with snipers a lot practiced being aggressive with them only for Bungie to remove the aggressive aspect and making it harder. That's not ok it bring less diversity. They made them camp at the back guns. Which doesn't fit Destiny. If I sat at the back of the map in a Rumble match would I get many points? No just because Clever/Madator can kill multiple targets with ease and the way things are built in Destiny. Snipers need a buff so they can compete on how the game is played. Unless you are playing Trials it's not a camp fest.
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7 RepliesI don’t need a counter argument. All you need to know is that Tu quoque is a fallacy of an argument. You're entire argument is based on a flawed premise.
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In this game snipers take the least amount of skill
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1 ReplyMega bump! The 1k stare meta was the worst moment in Destiny's rocky PVP history. I quit playing during that time./"
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28 RepliesIt's funny how people understand how a sniper rifle works. But can't grasp shotgun range. If shotguns had the range their supposed to have people would literally break their controllers I guarantee it.
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3 RepliesBut but Matador Jugg shield takes so much skill
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2 RepliesEdited by TheArtist: 1/1/2017 3:05:03 AM[quote]Snipers take more skill....so please make them easier to use again. (rampant sniper hypocrisy) [/quote] ROFLMAO..... Oh MAN that is just playin' DIRTY........ :-)))) In what LITTLE defense I can offer them, snipers bitch about shotgunners because they are mortal enemies. Each representing what the other hates. Most snipers are snipers....because they generally suck at CQC. So snipers allow them to fight at a comfortable distance....until some shotgunner (MFer) comes up and FORCES CQC on them. Shotgunners like fast, mobile, in your face play. Perhaps because they aren't so great with precision shooting. But Snipers can lockdown an entire map and prevent anyone from moving freely. So the resentment is mutual. But snipers aren't OP....Bungie just (finally) balanced them. They finally have the relationship to the game's primary weapons that they should have had all along. Now its time to put shotguns into balance as well. Not by nerfing shotguns...but by BUFFING primaries. Just like it was a ninja buff to primaries (through flinch) that got snipers under control.
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Same thing with the whole cbmm turd. All these idiots were warned that the lag wasn't going anywhere. Still they were persistent. Some were just blind fanboys on board the bandwagon while others were possibly just uneducated about a peer to peer connection. But how many knew and just wanted to have easier matches against less skilled players? I'd say quite a few especially when just a day after it was implemented there were neckbeard streamers posting 50+kill matches like it was the norm. They got what they wanted and still the lag exist. Now I sit and watch as I know the crucible's playerbase base will dwindle and smile knowing it was bungo and the lovely community that did it.
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Edited by will: 1/1/2017 8:08:19 PMJust need a flinch tone down in my opinion
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1 ReplyI'm a sniper buff protagonist, but not a shotgun nerf protagonist. I have a few changes that I'd like to see that will effect snipers positively, but in my opinion, not break the game. 1) remove lens glare from NLB. it has no scope on it. It also takes up the primary slot, and no other primary has lens glare. 2) SLIGHTLY reduce flinch. I don't want flinch removed, I just want it slightly reduced to be able to effectively counter scout rifles. 3) buff unflinching perk. As a perk that is supposed to remove flinch, buffing it would make this a sought after perk, and may even reduce the necessity to slightly reduce flinch. Let me know what you think guardians
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4 RepliesHonestly, I thought snipers needed a bit of a nerf, but I don't really like the way they did it, mainly with the visual flinch. Some times it isn't bad, but other times it seems a bit "excessive." As I had been saying before and after the nerf, they should have dealt with the actual problem, the resetting of the scope (sniper takes hit, flinches, scope resets to original aim point. They should have made it so that the scope only came back to 90-95% of the original aiming point on an initial hit with each subsequent hit being 1-3% (autos on the lower end and semi-autos on the higher end). This would make snipers have to correct their aim, but allow for skilled snipers to still have a chance. My argument has always been for them to reverse the nerf, then add this change. Shotguns do need something done, mainly high impact shotguns and their effective range. This can be done by 1) Messing with player mobility (slide/skate/shadestep shotgunning) 2) Increasing the map size (increases ranges, doesn't have to be large increase) 3) Decrease range on HI shotguns Player mobility may be going to far as it would affect other weapons and skills in other ways. Increasing the map size won't work for a majority of the Forum community (there's a reason why First Light and Bastion aren't in any normal rotation). This leaves decreasing the range, but I do not really know shotguns well enough to know if there is another way to make a weapon side change. The main reason I would like to see the change is because it seems like there is a very small effective range between snipers and shotguns that are occupied by sidearms and fusion rifles (which are overlapped by shotguns), and primary weapons that I would like to see be expanded. However, this problem is created by the combination of the HI shotgun's range, player mobility (sliding/skating/shadestep), and map design.
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66 RepliesSnipers do not require a lot of skill. I have played many shooters but this game has the easiest sniping I have ever seen in a modern day FPS. This is coming from a seasoned Battlefield player. Reasons why: 1. Snipers have no sway when scoped in. None. 2. The only bolt action is the No Land. All snipers can shoot fast and can easily land 2 body shots. 3. Aim assist. 4. If you do not think Aim assist is a big deal, let's look at it this way. Aim assist can STACK up to 3 times on a sniper weapon. a. Base weapon Aim assist stat b. Hidden Hand rolling on a sniper c. Aim assist values on scopes being used. I understand we are on console, but a precision weapon should not have so much aim assist, it should have none. 5. No bullet drop. Snipers are literally laser beams. No drop in bullet means aim isn't a huge deal. I understand most of these mechanics are done to make this game more accessible for casuals. But getting good with a weapon type that was designed to have the lowest learning curve doesn't make you very good. This is shown when they removed a little bit of aim assist from the snipers everyone was dick riding all the time, and added reasonable scope flinch to them...everyone stopped using them. Scope flinch was necessary. If you disagree, come run some Battlefield with me for a week and see how good at sniping you really are.
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I don't know about snipers because they can in fact 1hit from across the map and people tend to quickscope instead of using them how intended anyway. But scoutrifles provably need something done about them. They have less kills than any other primary weapon, as well as less kills than scouts or snipers. Much as people like to say that they're for PVE content Bungie has never released a single statement that scoutrifles are not competitive with other weapons in crucible intentionally. People keep claiming "The scout has never been buffed because it is the most balanced weapon in the game"... Over Six. Hundred. Million. Less kills than the next closest primary weapon? Less kills than supers. Less kills than melees or grenades. The only non heavy that has less kills than the scoutrifle are the fusion rifle and the sidearm which didn't even start seeing regular use until around a year ago. Something just isn't in balance with the scout and that means something needs to be doen about it.. Significantly reducing flinch or increasing stability would work and would be my preference over increasing impact.. But they need work.
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IMO the only people who complain about snipers right now are the people who used to run around and only use snipers. They can no longer use a sniper as their primary source of kills. I still snipe all the time and I have no issues because when I use a sniper it's because the situation calls for it. I think snipers are fine and if somebody wants to bitch about the flinch being too much I say pull out your primary.
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5 RepliesAll the change in sniper rifles did was show who is actually good with a sniper rifle, and who thought they were, but aren't. A good sniper user is still a good sniper user.
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9 Repliesduring taken king they were still by far the hardest weapon to use. BY FAR. and, statistically the nerf was completely unwarranted. shotguns have always dominated the crucible, atleast in taken king snipers had their place in 3v3s. dumbass thumbless shotgun warriors went and ruined that so now once again shotguns dominate everything from clash, to trials to sweats good job, the only game mode where sniping is still better than shotgunning is combined arms. woot. a game mode nobody plays.
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6 RepliesAs much as I despise shot guns in destiny and love snipers, I can agree with you I still snipe regardless of the flinch, even though it's harder to snipe, you just have to adjust your play style to snipe at the respective range, and disengage from a gunfight if under fire, especially if they have Hcr. I reckon snipers are fine, just more difficult and require you to adapt to flinch and learning to snipe at the correct time. The only thing I want to be changed is for them to maybe remove hcr on Hrof pulse rifles. As for shotguns, as annoying as they may be, they can't be nerfed to oblivion like people want them be. When I transitioned from Cod to Destiny (few months before Roi) , I immediately realised shotguns had no range compared to cod shotguns, they could literally snipe you depending on what shotgun you used (ksg from Bo2) while in destiny, you can come no near that and had to use them in actual cqc, not close to mid range. I feel like the best thing to do for shotguns is to nerf the matador to be on par with other shotguns of its archetype, and same for the higher rof shotguns, make them at least be able to compete with the current shotgun meta with high impact shotguns, and maybe buff primaries to add variety and compete with shotguns/ snipers depending on the weapons. That's all I have to say and what I think should be done. But heck, I came a few months before Roi, I could be completely wrong for all I know.
