I know exactly what you mean. I'm not a raid master by any means, but I see plenty of people having trouble where no trouble is necessary, foremost in the area of jumping. I will wait as long as it takes for any of my raid friends to negotiate the tomb ship jumping, or the wall jumping segment right before the daughters, as the point of playing with them is exactly that; playing [i]with[/i] them. (And by the same token, I know they'll wait for my lumbering Titan ass to make it through.) The problem is that it shouldn't be necessary, since all jumping in all games is an abomination and should be summarily eliminated. (A post for another time, I'll bet.) What King's Fall does badly is that it removes the potential for individual player specialization, especially in regard to the daughters relic. Destiny is primarily a shooter, with jumping mechanics playing an insignificant part in the completion of 99% of the game -- to make the endgame content completely inaccessible to people who have trouble jumping and negotiating platforms under a time limit, with five other people depending on them, is a total d*ck move. The relic running should be [i]completely[/i] optional, as it is with Oryx. That allows one player to specialize in that activity, while freeing others to specialize in their specific skills. (Others who, let's say, might not be as good at judging spacial relationships and distances after the third-person perspective shift smacks them in the gob, completely contradicting the mechanics of every other jumping instance in the game.) Tl;dr -- eliminate the wall-jumping requirement, along with the random torn selection at the daughters, and you'll have a much more playable raid that adjusts itself automatically to varying skill levels - - still challenging for those who are great at it, but less arbitrarily punishing for those of us who are just barely getting by.

Casual. That's fine, we don't expect much from you.

Honestly the increased mechanics made the raid more fun and makes winning it a challenge, but your opinion is your own and I am not against it.

It's more difficult to carry people through it. It's good for people who have a dedicated group they play with but it's terrible for loners.

The easiest way to complete the kf raid is to find a permanent team and stop playing with randoms. I prefer this raid because everyone needs to play his part.

I agree with you. I have 8-10 oryx hm challenge completions. Its not that it's too hard. The mechanics just make it extremely boring. I have great memories of crota and vog. I still run them for fun, as do many others. Very few will run kf for fun. It will be quieter than poe when it is no longer needed.

David Bowie is dead, noooooooo

I enjoyed the VoG's [b][i]run and gun[/i][/b] style of mechanics better. Mechanics are fine, but with Kings Fall most of it is shoot crap from cover, then go do the boss mechanic, repeat. VoG had a constant combat pace with a more simple [b][i]defend this/attack that[/i][/b] style, and I liked it.