JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 5/24/2024 7:33:51 AM
155

Catering to influencers with difficulty fetishes are going to kill your game

Looking at the nerfs both in terms of weapons and supers, it's pretty clear who is getting their wishes granted and who isn't. For most D2 players, this is a fun sci-fi, co-op shooter that we can play with friends at the end of the day for a few hours to do some fun activities. Over the last 2 years, however, the game has become a grungy grindfest that requires a lot more effort than comparable games in this space. The thing is, only a few people wanted this game to be "Halo Dark Souls" and every change made to cater to those people have been met with universal disdain by the rest of your community, whether it's through feedback posts like this one or people simply leaving the game to go play other titles that have better difficulty scaling. The thing is, I've been playing online video games for 30 years and invariably, I see the same things happen over and over again. Company caters to the exceptionally small number of players who either play the game like a job or play the game as a job. Game becomes unapproachable to most of its own player base. Players do what they want (like DLC story content) and then disappear back into Elden Ring or Baldurs Gate 3 or the other games that keep coming out that seem to be getting it right with their player bases. And what sucks about that is that naysayers will point to fresh DLC release population levels and say "see? People like this." All while ignoring the fact that only a fraction of those very players are gonna stick around longer than a month or two once they hit the difficulty wall and decide that they won't want to farm for 18 maxed out builds for 6 activities and have to hit 97 buttons to complete a reasonably passable damage rotation because no individual weapons actually do anything anymore. This was not a Dark Souls-like experience and that was part of its charm. It has become like a Dark Souls experience, and it's quickly losing its charm. These changes don't bring new players. They chase players away so that the people -blam!- can brag about the time investment they spent in a video game. Thing is, it isn't 2020-2022 anymore and we don't have a once-in-a-century pandemic keeping people at home playing video games because they don't have anything else to do. People went back to work and back outside, and Bungie's response to this massive change in player behavior was to cater to the people who never went back to work and never went back outside. It's insane, actually. I would love to see the number of people who choose to go to Neomuna outside of completing seasonal challenges. Nobody goes there for lost sector farming exotics or anything like that. They wait until the lost sector is on a planet that doesn't suck. Nerfing everything, including survivability, makes your game less fun and ending a LONG season with a bunch of TWIDs excitedly exclaiming how much worse everything is going to be going into TFS means that the developers, the game's influencers, and the infinitesimally small number of players who think Dark Souls Halo is fun have entirely lost the plot here. Would you people, just for once, let your players have fun? This isn't a skill game and no amount of tuning will ever make it a skill game. It was a fun game with a good story that's becoming increasingly less accessible to players below a certain skill gap, and since that's most of your players, these changes will invariably kill your game, just like it did every other online game I've ever liked. Edit For the record, I personally have no problems completing what I want to complete on this game. However, making new friends and helping them out has basically become "get these weapons and this armor, otherwise you're going to have to DPS this dungeon boss for 18 rounds and it's not fun" And most of those people leave, because farming for weapons for 200 hours to do endgame content (or alternatively doing 8 rounds of boss DPS) isn't actually fun to 99.8% of your players base.

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Drakogarnus: 5/30/2024 3:38:53 AM
    this is great considering how they said they where not gonna give early access out but gave it to streamers, i wonder if a streamer/influencer messes up cross save does bungo help them with that? while they ignore lesser people who have the same issue. since they are hypocrites.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by TheOceanRoamer: 5/24/2024 1:47:09 PM
    Something I have mentioned for years now. This influencer/bungo relationship has sunk D2 to its lowest depths...worst is they persevere, thinking we the community who have financed their work will gobble as usual. Well just look at the sales of final shape...yeah were not really having it, are we now. I wouldn't compare destiny to another game, I think its quite unique but so badly managed. (Also in that sense quite unique) PVP let's throw in a few long overdue maps, that should make em happy; at the same time disregarding the PVP community. Constant introduction of new game modes which the competitive community hates. PVE let's resurrect Cayde, but right thereafter also make Saint and Osiris a gay couple lol 😆. No lessons learned from lightfall. We seriously don't think the -blam!- of our main charachters is relevant, get it? Lets nerf all the old subclasses, so we will feel the need to buy the final shape, we see you coming Bungie. In 23 yrs as a customer of bungie not once did they send a survey or have a poll within the community. When influencers surfaced, that became their poll stations. A great game, a toxic management, their reward: loosing the community.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    • You said it all. I wished they ll listen to the few in the forum that tried to voice their voice about the wrong direction taken after wq i.e guns over abilities, I really though after the failure of lightfall they ll come back to a wq approach but no ... this is clearly a continuation of lightfall ... imagine the manufactor of your car after a service tell you .. look your car performed too good therefore we decided to take out the turbo so that it leaves some room for other compagny to thrive and we will charges you for that twice the price.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • dont think anything could kill this game just the individuals experience of it.. like they could just delete all of our loot and atleast 20% of us would come back and still play

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      1 Reply
      • Edited by Magiscene: 5/24/2024 12:38:55 PM
        I couldn’t agree more. The charm of this game was the power fantasy it offered. Be it strong builds or over leveling to make endgame content bearable. Between the cycle of bungie nerfing everything meta and slapping a power cap on everything calling it difficult has just been killing the game for me personally since went from fun grinds to just a slog fest in everything. I’ll use day 1 as an example. All the nerfs lately have definitely been targeting meta builds that could have been used in that setting. Healing, golden gun spam, strand titan bow and grapple spam, star eaters, sun bracers, well, bubble, assassins cowl, and cenotaph just to name a few. Then there’s the minus 20 power cap used to make it a level playing field for worlds first. I don’t fully blame the influencers for all the difficulty increases (they definitely had a huge hand in it since they are the ones most visible in the community) because I see lots of people on this forum and Twitter alike defending the rise in difficulty saying they enjoy it and saying it must be a skill issue and adapt. All I’ve seen from influencers lately is screw the average player, I want my difficult content and everyone else needs to just git gud. They try to defend it by saying people need to practice more and it’s more engaging, not all of us have time to practice due to idk having a job or a family, nor do I think using my brain for 2 seconds is engaging. People can do endgame content just fine but that doesn’t mean they have to like it (wish people could grasp this concept) I miss the days when games used to just be a fun pass time with friends after work like you meantioned. These days it just feels like every game is designed to be the next dark souls or hyper competitive like cod and it’s sbmm. This has been making it very tough to want to even pick up new games these days but I doubt the industry will change course anytime soon.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • It's clear what they're doing, pay to keep playing next month or quit the game. We're just the helpless addicts, and they're our scummy dealer.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • This has been like this since the day one raid crap. Thank datto for artificial difficulty

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Being an older, senior player I’m really hitting big walls where I just have to accept that many can run (literal!) circles around anything I can do. Like, recently with legend Zero Hour. Fun on normal (40 minutes!) but I’d struggle to get to the boss with much time left on legend. Could probably find kind people who’d carry me (be at boss while I’m still hopping about outside) but that doesn’t feel right. It’s OK to have pro-level stuff (show human capabilities). Look at golf: has the pro-circuit but meanwhile lots of duffers enjoy putzing around, even if scoring kinda pathetically.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • You are spot on. Bungie has made the game mechanics much more "Dark Soul" like. Which is surprising considering this is not a medieval fantasy but considering we have swords, glaives and bows maybe not so much.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        3 Replies
        • I just want to find a group of regular ole players who are willing and ready to sit down for a night and complete the challenges. Like most people give it a try or two or three, then call it quits. The difficulty isn't that bad, it just requires strategy and persistence, which a lot of players don't have. I'm happy to "earn" an achievement, but you know, who else is?

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • BALANCE the 1 thing Bungie bozos could not figure out.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • 3
          Hyperion
          Hyperion

          There are cracks within the simulation. - 6/15/2024 10:20:19 AM

          The only thing these influencers is the unsubscribe button.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          1 Reply
          • Edited by Synge_X: 5/23/2024 7:44:48 PM
            I upvoted your post, as I agree with the sentiment, however, I do not think comparing Destiny2’s difficulty to Dark Souls is at all an accurate comparison in terms of the gameplay difficulty that Bungie has produced. Dark Souls is a brilliant game with finely tuned difficulty, that is punishing but fair. Everything in the gameplay is very clear and easy to read visually , but depending on the players skill and available tools, The difficulty comes in the form of pacing and timing one’s offense versus defense. Destiny 2 ‘s take on difficulty is an absolute mess. The screen is often filled with so much crap, and the number of adds, versus available cover fire and reasonable geometry is questionable at best. In Dark souls, not every boss’s health POOL is through the roof, with multiple stages of invincibility, as many can be downed as quickly as they can kill you. If you get into DS, you rarely if ever die asking yourself “how did that happen”. Destiny 2’s combat at the high levels require less actual well paced combat, and more instances of leveraging whatever over powered gear exists at the time that hasn’t been nerfed, and one dimensional camping spots. This is a result of Bungie taking the absolute bottom of the barrel approach to making the game difficult. Tedious abstract mechanics, reliance on seasonal overtuned weapons/gear, lack of decent level design(cover positions uninhibited by unnecessary geometry), insane boss/enemy health pools are simply not present in Dark Souls. Oh and I forgot the homing AOE attacks and boss stomp Mechanics…

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            1 Reply
            • I know bro they made pve so difficult when back in the good old days of house of wolves it was straight forward action.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              8 Replies
              • 0
                You wrote a novel. Hardly anyone will read that. Second, if you had this on easy mode, the game would get boring and stale. As it stands, bungie has difficult levels on half the stuff. You can pick how you wish to play and find people accordingly.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                2 Replies
                • 0
                  Guardian,Archon Of Light
                  Guardian,Archon Of Light

                  Thank You Cayde, I will never forget!!! - old

                  And catering to casuals who don't care about the game will kill it faster

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                • Edited by Zoidberg: 5/25/2024 7:50:50 PM
                  [quote] For the record, I personally have no problems completing what I want to complete on this game. However, making new friends and helping them out has basically become "get these weapons and this armor, otherwise you're going to have to DPS this dungeon boss for 18 rounds and it's not fun" And most of those people leave, because farming for weapons for 200 hours to do endgame content (or alternatively doing 8 rounds of boss DPS) isn't actually fun to 99.8% of your players base.[/quote] This. I can complete anything as well. But it's chased of many new players and even veterans of the series. I had a friend play with me since the early days of d1. And with the recent state of the game, they just don't want to play anymore. Making the game harder by nerfing accessibility is slowly eroding the player base.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  3 Replies
                  • Isn’t it funny that even with over 300 likes and comments being posted all the time, that this post is sinking down the list? It’s almost as if Bungie wants the dissenting voices to just be quiet. Well if you like quiet Bungie let’s see how pre-orders are going after this latest round of unwarranted nerfs.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    1 Reply
                    • just look at world of warcraft they killed they're own player base by only catering to the top 1% of the players removing the fun from joining as a new player. because people are so hyper focus on meta builds and 11/10 gear that u can't get with a actual life. u are practicly forced to play as a bottem feader instead of being able to enjoy the game. I for sure hope they dont push the game to that point. Because with no new influx's of players it will only kill the game harder than its already doing with the crappy base game intro u get with it.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      2 Replies
                      • Well put Sir, totally agree. Wait for the dozy dozen defenders who shout every post down to flame you.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      • I agree, I’ve completed more than one souls like game, and in D2 I completed everything, but after trying zero hour legend one time I’m tired and I just don’t want to fly so I can sing for what? I already have this weapon, another useless ship? do what what? click on a completed triumph? this is complete nonsense, I'm already waiting for this company and the game to simply destroy itself so as not to spoil the backlash for people who want to play video games and not bang their heads against the wall...

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        1 Reply
                        • So true, if the playerbase is decimated, Bungie (or Sony) will simply turn off the lights.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • I agree with everything you're saying. All these nerfs are basically nerfing the in-game Player experience and are only increasing game difficulty. I hope everyone quits the game due to the nerfs. All Bungie does now is nerf everything and increase in-game difficulty. This game is NOT FUN anymore, It is TORTURE.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • Edited by Mark, Scholar of Stars: 5/24/2024 5:40:03 PM
                          Your observation is correct. There's no constant, a lot of ingame content is getting harder on and on. One has to be adaptable for that, but you can't expect this from everyone - not on a scale like this. Generally, I'm not against influencers, as long as they have a healthy agenda. But one shouldn't sell content, that a huge amount of players can't accomplish. That's crazy. I'm sorry, but there's no other word for it. I thought Prismatic will be an option, but from what I've seen now, after the last two Dev Insights it looks like a must. And, today comes the next hammer... It's amazing, Bungie had a lot of damage with Lightfall: they're board will be exchanged - if that happens again, and they continue just like that. It's sad, but what I think about the management, I don't want to say it here. I'm looking forward to The Final Shape, but that's just one side, because I also think it will be stressful again.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          1 Reply
                          • You are so right it's sad. I've beaten most end game content. GMs, master raids, legend onslaught. Bungie does not know its player base at all. If I wanted dark souls, I'd play dark souls. It's one of my favorite games ever. That's not why I play destiny. People are tired of nerfs, difficulty increases and sheer time it takes to be a viable player in this game. There's a few others I haven't named but you get the point. None of my friends want to come back. Can you guess the reasons why? Bungie is truly out of touch and it's sad This post needs way more recognition.

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          • Edited by hate n payne: 5/25/2024 12:46:16 AM
                            Preach. This game burns the fun out of it and yourself. Plain and simple.

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          You are not allowed to view this content.
                          ;
                          preload icon
                          preload icon
                          preload icon