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Edited by sKiZoMoNki:
3/24/2024 11:47:04 AM
29
Rethinking Skill-Based Matchmaking in Destiny 2 PvP: Finding Balance for All Guardians
Let's talk about Skill-Based Matchmaking (SBMM) in Destiny 2's PvP. It's a hotly debated topic among the community, and for good reason. On one hand, SBMM aims to create fair matches by pairing players of similar skill levels together. On the other hand, it often leads to frustrations, longer queue times, and an overall less enjoyable experience for many players.
The current system tries to balance the playing field, especially for newer players or those who might not be as skilled in PvP. However, it's not without its flaws. While SBMM might protect newbies from getting stomped by seasoned veterans, it also creates an environment where every match feels like a sweat-fest, with little room for casual fun.
So, what's the alternative? Some argue for a return to connection-based matchmaking (CBMM), where matches are primarily based on ping and connection quality rather than skill level. This could potentially lead to more fluid gameplay, faster queue times, and a more diverse range of opponents.
Sure, with CBMM, there's a chance you'll occasionally get matched against players far above or below your skill level. But isn't that part of the beauty of PvP? The unpredictability, the challenge of facing off against opponents of varying skill sets—it's what keeps things interesting.
By prioritizing connection quality over skill level, we could create a more inclusive PvP environment where players of all skill levels can thrive. Newcomers would still have the opportunity to learn and improve, while seasoned veterans can enjoy more relaxed matches without feeling like every game is a high-stakes tournament.
However, one concern with the current state of SBMM is the studio's interpretation of balance. Often, this means placing one highly skilled player into a lobby of rookies, destined to lose. While this might appear balanced on paper, it's not an enjoyable experience for anyone involved. It leads to frustration for the skilled player and a demoralizing defeat for the rookies.
It's also worth noting that the odds of coming across the top 1% best players in any given match are low simply due to the numbers. While there might be instances where a rookie gets stomped, statistically, these occurrences are rare.
Ultimately, the goal should be to create a PvP experience that's enjoyable for everyone, whether you're a casual player looking to unwind after a long day or a hardcore competitor seeking intense, skillful battles. It's a challenging task, but with input from the community and careful consideration from Bungie, we can work towards a matchmaking system that satisfies the needs of all Guardians.
What are your thoughts on Skill-Based Matchmaking in Destiny 2 PvP? Do you prefer SBMM, CBMM, or a combination of both? Let's discuss and find common ground as we strive to make the Crucible a better place for all Guardians.
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Just balance the teams. That’s all.
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Is this sarcasm??
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Edited by jaydude_2001: 3/25/2024 4:43:32 PMReimplement CBMM and I (and I assume many like me) am gone. I played some pvp during Witch Queen before they implemented SBMM and it was basically what Supremacy is now. Just a handful of sweats running around with adept weapons mowing everyone down. Where are the people supposedly wanting to "chill" and "try new loadouts"? They're just sliding around like crazy with conditional finality and adept igneous hammer/summoner (thanks bungie for locking all the op loot behind trials). Those are the people crying for SBMM back, content creators who want clips or sad basement dwellers with 4k hours in crucible who want to feel better about their miserable lives by mowing down newer/less sweaty players. Everything else is a lie and an excuse. End of.
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6 RepliesSbmm in every playlist is the best way
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26 RepliesGot through the first 2 paragraphs, and had to stop reading. The only players complaining about SBMM are the true elite players who mostly want to smear the playing field with less skilled players. They want the 4.0 K/D ratios, not a fair and balanced match. As a less skilled player SBMM was working great, I was haveing fun actually getting some kills and NOT getting killed every few seconds. Getting close to 1.0 K/D per match, instead of 0.18 to 0.4. It was fun right to the point all the elite players complained and Bungie decided to appease them by making us low skilled players redo the placement series. I outright refuse to play PVP anymore for any reason. I will not go back to 0.12 K/D ratios and getting dead every few seconds just so someone else can have a "casual and fun" PVP experience. Even for 8 matches. I am not alone, long queue times from lack of players, is because bungie is doing it's level best to drive lower skilled players OUT of PVP.
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[quote]Let's talk about Skill-Based Matchmaking (SBMM) in Destiny 2's PvP. It's a hotly debated topic among the community, and for good reason. On one hand, SBMM aims to create fair matches by pairing players of similar skill levels together. On the other hand, it often leads to frustrations, longer queue times, and an overall less enjoyable experience for many players. The current system tries to balance the playing field, especially for newer players or those who might not be as skilled in PvP. However, it's not without its flaws. While SBMM might protect newbies from getting stomped by seasoned veterans, it also creates an environment where every match feels like a sweat-fest, with little room for casual fun. So, what's the alternative? Some argue for a return to connection-based matchmaking (CBMM), where matches are primarily based on ping and connection quality rather than skill level. This could potentially lead to more fluid gameplay, faster queue times, and a more diverse range of opponents. Sure, with CBMM, there's a chance you'll occasionally get matched against players far above or below your skill level. But isn't that part of the beauty of PvP? The unpredictability, the challenge of facing off against opponents of varying skill sets—it's what keeps things interesting. By prioritizing connection quality over skill level, we could create a more inclusive PvP environment where players of all skill levels can thrive. Newcomers would still have the opportunity to learn and improve, while seasoned veterans can enjoy more relaxed matches without feeling like every game is a high-stakes tournament. However, one concern with the current state of SBMM is the studio's interpretation of balance. Often, this means placing one highly skilled player into a lobby of rookies, destined to lose. While this might appear balanced on paper, it's not an enjoyable experience for anyone involved. It leads to frustration for the skilled player and a demoralizing defeat for the rookies. It's also worth noting that the odds of coming across the top 1% best players in any given match are low simply due to the numbers. While there might be instances where a rookie gets stomped, statistically, these occurrences are rare. Ultimately, the goal should be to create a PvP experience that's enjoyable for everyone, whether you're a casual player looking to unwind after a long day or a hardcore competitor seeking intense, skillful battles. It's a challenging task, but with input from the community and careful consideration from Bungie, we can work towards a matchmaking system that satisfies the needs of all Guardians. What are your thoughts on Skill-Based Matchmaking in Destiny 2 PvP? Do you prefer SBMM, CBMM, or a combination of both? Let's discuss and find common ground as we strive to make the Crucible a better place for all Guardians.[/quote] This will never happen. This pvp community is so weak, anything less than stomping casuals and they won’t even play it… Imagine a PvP community that doesn’t want to even compete best on best… That’s the Destiny PvP community
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1 ReplyToo bad CBMM would only put the lower level players into that tournament due to zero balancing within the playlist. The gamemode to recently have Connection Based Matchmaking is Trials, and we saw how that went… As hated as SBMM is, it’s needed until the lobby balancing is completely fixed.
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Control/Iron Banner no longer use SBMM. They use CBMM with Outlier Protection. The real problem is Lobby Balancing.
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I say this as an average player… the issue always will be the skill distribution is insanely uneven. I’m not cracked whatsoever but just because I’m not a lifetime .5 when I do play I play against players that are actually good. I don’t get like 1.0-1.5 group or teammates or band to play in. In IB last season the amount of times I wasnt highest KDA in the pre intro lobby was only a handful at like a 2.35 KDA lol. If I had someone on my team anywhere near that I knew the team were playing had actual good players. That’s what people don’t understand. If you’re positive career at all you’re in the sweat band. Like 1.0-3.0 haha
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3 RepliesThe saddest posts I see on this forum are the ones declaring trials of Osiris to be endgame pvp. When your team has an 85% or better chance of winning it is not endgame content, I would argue it to be easier than new light quests. Whatever, I don’t care, obviously a waste of time for 50% of the players who get the 5-15%chance of winning.
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1 ReplyEdited by Zodleon: 3/26/2024 6:28:58 PM(Almost) All matchmaking has its place. The conversation shouldn't be either or, but where each is appropriate and making sure that the most central ones have appropriate representation.
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Are you new here?
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by the way it will be even worse in both cases, since now few people play the game or those who are in it constantly, I see this in matches and in LFG where I often meet the same people
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Edited by The Hermit IX: 3/25/2024 8:49:08 PMControl, IB and Comp have SBMM. Everything else uses CBMM or another form of matchmaking. They can’t make everything SBMM or CBMM because it hurts the population playing that specific mode.
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1) SBMM should be by itself in its own mode, with maps that fit the 3v3 environment. 2) CBMM should also be by itself in its own mode, with maps that fit the 6v6 environment. 3) i prefer CBMM when im tired after a long day of work, and when i have a nack for Competition i will go into SBMM. We could talk about this all day, the problem is Bungie listens to either the Streamers and ticks of the Average base, or Bungie listens to Casual players and F### up Crucible for everybody except for the bottom 1%. Forsaken is the prime example of good PVP, and it thrived without Trials. We had a Strong SBMM PVP, and a Strong CBMM PVP. Bungie has that Data and they refuse to use it because they want to re-invent the wheel. The reason the High teir players went into Control(CBMM) was because Bungie starved their SBMM of rewards. And instead of just adding Rewards, they decided to uproot the whole system before Seraph. Survival was fine the way it was, it just lacked rewards. High teir players like myself saw that the same rewards we get in Control are the same in Comp...SO they why sweat when the reward is the Same? The only Solution is..Bring back Survival SBMM WITH REWARDS!, and make Control 100% CBMM, with a Low Rank(Low Elo) a Playlist for them like in PlanetSide 2. This isnt hard to grasp. this Hybrid S### needs to stop.
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1 ReplyWell I partially agree with the OP. Those who complain about population need to understand that the learning curve exist and putting new player against elites doen't grow the crucible population. Quite the opposite. Every other game on earth has division. You don't match a silver player in the same lobby of a global elite in CS. Used to be the norm until the fire nations attaks.... ehm, until the streaming culture arrives. Clearly there should be a place with no SBMM to try builds and warm up. Used to be control but the wise men and women at bungie decided to impplement the stricter Sbmm there of all places..... The crucible lacks vision, direction, balance, developer attetion, maps, incentives. And still a lot of us love it. It's a waste of potential.
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Rank Based MM in Comp. CBMM everywhere else, except Card-based MM in Trials. This is the way.
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1 ReplyWe currently have Outlier Protection (extremely loose SBMM), CBMM and RBMM. There’s something for everybody. Maybe lobby balancing is the main issue and it’s something Bungie say they’re working on. I mostly play Comp (RBMM) and I think it’s mostly fine as it is. Nobody should expect every match to be well balanced — there are just too many factors involved that can’t be accounted for.
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Re thinking SBMM? It should never have been a thought to begin with. Ignoring the fact that D2 will never be a competitive PvP game. SBMM has caused more problems than it solves. The other problem is Bungie's idea of Lobby Balancing.......Here's the really unsurprising part. They're clueless when using both. But this late in D2's lifespan. I'd just be happy to have fully stable games with a complete eradication of cheaters. Either one is a nigh impossibility. But one can dream.
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4 RepliesA game for everyone is a game for no one. Find who your audience is and cater toward them.
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2 RepliesEdited by Zoidberg: 3/25/2024 1:12:26 AMSBMM is not active in normal playlists. Lobby balancing is however. And every single match is sweaty regardless of these systems. So tbh strict SBMM needs to be everywhere. Or at least an option
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Does anyone have a job that they want to talk about how much more time I spent on PvP than they did their job?
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3 RepliesSbmm will never work for destiny 2 because of how the server architecture works. If they had servers and the population to support SBMM the game would at least function. When strict SBMM was in place the game was unplayable for me as someone not even in top 15% simply cuz every match had players teleporting everywhere. The loosened SBMM made lobbies bearable in terms of connection quality; and whatever is in the current supremacy of guardian games is acceptable in terms of connection. I don’t care about facing players at my level consistently ; I play a decent amount of comp - what is unacceptable is poor connection lobbies which since the most recent iteration of outlier protection seems to have addressed.
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It just shouldn't be treated as criminal to think that's what's best for the game is what looks the best when people play it instead of absurdist interpretations of that. We've been down this road before and it ends up with absurd results. Its absurd to say some people are bad and then look at the game looking like it does when people say that. Its also absurd for people to think that Destiny is going to deliver neat and tidy outcomes repeatedly whenever anyone is playing it and that will not be based on having people doing as well as they most likely should be doing. The game has also been out for 7 years and the people that like it and play it have proven that and the people that periodically emerge to give everyone else the run around have proven what they do well as well.
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I love sbmm since it’s so exploitable 🤣averaging a 13 kda in solo quick play against bots is such an enjoyable experience for me
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Edited by ㅤ Avvor: 3/24/2024 12:28:24 PMSbmm can’t exist in nearly any form without a stupidly large population to back it up With a Low player population it straight up dosernt work key example me facing a 3Kd in comp which has happened before And if you go off skill brackets sbmm changes nothing the top still destroy the people at the lower end of there skill brackets and it just takes longer to find matches
