It’s one of the only raids where you can’t just stick 2 people on add clear for every encounter

Couldn’t agree more

Not hateful. Just not going to take your opinion seriously when you haven’t even attempted the raid. If you complete it and still hold the same view, fine.

I think its the other way around, the casual opinion is not popular

Keep grinding DSC then.

I don't want more raids that are as Symbols heavy, but I want more raids with similar mechanics to Caretaker and Rhulk where we have something to do other than stand there and ad clear while waiting for the boss to go to damage phase. Caretaker is probably my favourite encounter in terms of mechanics, Rhulk is great because he moves around and makes it hard to hit him while he fights back instead of just instantly wiping the team because we didn't do enough damage to him. What I would prefer is more raids with varied mechanics like King's Fall (minus the Daughters/Oryx bugs) or Wrath. DSC, LW and Crota are fun for a few runs but they get boring quick because of how easy they are. The worst raids that I've played are Levi and its lairs, Crown, and Garden all for their own reasons of either being mind-numbingly dull or being too buggy or just not fun to play through. The best ones are all the best for the same reason of making you interact with the mechanics in a different way the rest of the game has you playing for story missions and strikes. I'm going to say that most of the hype for Vow is currently offset by the perceived difficulty of the encounters, but they all share the same mechanic and once we get the callouts settled it'll be much easier as more people will start teaching the raid in a more concise way. From my experience in raiding both as sherpa and being the one learning it after the fact it's usually never an issue of the mechanics that made the raids a bad experience as much as it was the people you run with. The main issues were almost always the attitude of the people running. I've had people with no experience say they wanna learn a raid and then leave after the first wipe when we didn't even have a chance to explain the encounter to them because they wanted to rush into it. I've also had people with no raid experience learn to do the most difficult encounters of raids in a single run because they were patient and asked questions on what they weren't sure of. It cuts both ways.

I think that's why there's a big jump from deepstone. Regardless on the difficulty/role scale, I'm excited for the next raid.

Memorizing symbols can be a nice mechanic... for a single encounter but doing the exact same mechanic for 3 out of the 4 encounters is incredibly boring and the difference between those 3 encounters and the final encounter? In the final encounter you dunk at a totem rather than shoot a set of symbols that's literally it. Over a year in development and the best raid mechanic they could come up with was shooting the matching symbol for almost all the encounters? Seriously? That is why its one of the worst since its just absolutely lazy and uninteresting. Pair that with the fact the raid loot is meh and the Master mode adept drops are pointless when weapon crafting exists.

I agree with you the raid is fun but it will get boring quick.

[quote]I don't agree. Vow imo is THE worst raid they have ever released, its not fun to play. From the long drawn out encounters and main mechanic being literally sleep inducingly boring its just not interesting to engage with. The only half decent encounter is the last one but every other encounter is boring. The taxi part at the beginning could be cut out completely since its useless and just makes the raid take more time. The first encounter is literally the scorn version of Vex integration event and its also really slow and boring. Second encounter is piss easy and also gated health BS... boring... Third encounter is only "intense" because of a timer which isn't an issue but the main mechanic being symbol -blam!- is incredibly tedious especially when it hardly has mixed it up at this point where its been the exact same mechanic for 3 whole encounters. Then finally Rhulk is half decent because at least the boss moves around this time instead of being a mindless alien that just stands there during damage and lets you pump damage into him. But anyway the last time I checked I was playing a first person shooter set in space and not a mahjong game.[/quote]

Didn't struggle with it, its that ITS THE SAME MECHANIC AS THE LAST 2 ENCOUNTERS! That's what makes it tedious! Also, doing the gate for VoG or the bubbles for DSC is way quicker than the taxi section of Vow.

Symbols aren't the hard part, it's finding the strength to keep reading them for the last encounter after going through the third encounter's hell. But in all seriousness, LW has harder symbols to read because you have a small detail that people still can't seem to call out which makes the difference. The only reason people don't complain about LW is that you can literally just skip to the final encounter as a mechanic inside the raid and the last encounter can literally be cheesed without interacting with any mechanics at all. I'm glad that Bungie didn't keep the wish wall as a way to get checkpoints because I still find people who don't even know any of the mechanics for LW other than Queen's Walk. I want to bet that people will start warming up to Vow after the issue of callouts gets settled and the "community" has a single set of names that they default to in teaching, because other than that it's a pretty solid raid with 2 interesting bosses.