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8/12/2021 8:35:38 PM
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Warlocks getting shafted harder than ever. Hunters are the "Mobility class" right and get the advantages of being such. The same is not true for the Space magic class.
This is not a Hunter dig post, it's a comparison post using Hunters set up to make a point.
Hear me out, in PVP it's no surprise to anyone that Hunters have had the best over all movement (Every perk tree has dodge and their jump options) and get the benefits from those advantages over other guardians in a run and gun game mode where staying in one place isn't how you win.
When their jump and dodge is spoken about or brought up, the counter point is "But they are meant to be the mobile class and be agile" Therefore seeming to justify their advantage of snappy movement, slowest cool down on class ability along with it's many benefits. Instant activation, fastest cool down, breaks aim assist also breaks tracking and reloads weapons.
My question is where is this same level of justification for Warlocks or Titans being so much better in one filed where they clearly have benefits over Hunters?
Warlocks are meant to be the Arcane magic class right? So where's our Arcane magic that dunks on what Hunters have like their movement does compared to ours? (Bearing in mind that Icarus dash is only on one perk tree out of 10 and is being nerfed, and that blink is on one subclass with 4 active penalties working against anyone using it)
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The mobility advantage just on a concept level is far too significant an advantage for PvP. I chalk that down to fundamentally bad game design. And why allocate clairvoyant wallhacks and invisibility exclusively to a non-magic class? Makes neither sense nor balance. Titan gets the Uber-melee, Ok. Hunter gets the mobility, ok. All 3 get the space-magic,...any sense of game character design out the proverbial window. Warlock perhaps should be known, created as, improved as the uber-grenade class to equal the disparities of e.g. rapid dodge. But won't happen.
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4 RepliesEdited by Klaus_Reaper (Adept): 8/14/2021 8:24:58 PMI have one thing to say only, I'm a main warlock, and when I'm on a streak at crucible, Lord Shaxx Says...*You have my respect Hunter*, so you guys can have an idea of what bungie caters to, since they didn't bother to check lord shaxx giving praise to you as a hunter, while you're playing as a warlock.
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Charged nades, ball lightning, rifts, arc buddy, handheld supernova, Warlocks have always had insanely strong abilities. Some of them are situational, but within that situation they dominate. Hunters, of course, have also had some immensely strong abilities, and this is often why people ask for them to be nerfed. A hunters abilities should be supplements to their movement and gun skills. Not the other way around. Generally this remains true, and usually the few outliers get pounded back in. The big exception being things like wormhusk and shatterdive. Titans have always been in a wierd position in that front, because their fantasy is that of the tank, and sometimes that results in them being defensive monstrosities, and other times it results in them being unchallengeable close range offense demons. It's the same problem shotguns have. Unless you disallow movevement like with icefall mantle, the same tools that are beneficial for defense can be used for aggressive pushes. Generally though, titans do still find their fantasy of being the tank in both of those roles. Shoulder charge, barricade, frontal assault, etc.
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6 RepliesI agree but 60% of people are hunter mains so therefore you won’t get many upvotes. The breaking aim is busted.
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3 RepliesEdited by Desolator0: 8/12/2021 11:03:21 PMBecause Hunter copoid mains cannot bear the thought of Warlocks and Titans being as good at something as Hunters are in PvP. To be fair, I have no idea what Warlocks are supposed to be good at. Throwing grenades? Team buffs? Blame Bungie for the lack of a singular, unified vision on what Warlocks are supposed to be good for. Why is Recovery even the class stat for Warlocks? Because they're supposed to be "recover-y" by placing a single, static healing rift down? I don't even get the point of them. Shouldn't it be Intellect + Recovery because they're supposed to be "the smart class"? Same with Titans. What are they good for in PvP? Being """tanky""" by placing a joke of a barricade that everyone ignores? Being """tanky""" by using a SINGLE super to place a static shield dome, which anyone smart will ignore and waste? Well, there goes the Titans' two most "tanky" abilities. Not even having 100 Resilience is a Titan-exclusive trait because any other class can reach it just as easily as a Titan can. Not like 100 Resilience makes you a "tank" in PvP anyways. At least for the """tank""" class, Resilience being their class stat makes sense. It should be both Resilience + Strength, in my opinion. Just like Warlocks, there is no singular vision for what Titans should be good at as well.
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8 RepliesShould tell you hunters are the slowest class and have the lowest of all jump heights.
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10 RepliesEdited by baskew24: 8/13/2021 3:14:37 AMWarlocks are fine. People that constantly complain about warlocks being bad just aren’t good at warlock.
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1 ReplyBungie doesn't know what they want. Here is what it seems like they want. Hunter to be DPS Warlock to be Support Titan to be Tank However that isn't the case. As you can technically classify Hunter as DPS/Mobility/Debuff/Support given certain builds. You can ever classify Warlock as Support/DPS/Tank/Debuff/Literally Anything. Heck, Even Titan can be Support/Tank/DPS/Debuff/Literally anything. Seems like they want all the classes to do the same thing but to exceed in one particular area. At least in PvP (given the most recent changes) They want Hunters to be the jumpy jump jumps. They want Warlocks to be the rift camping babies and they want Titans to be...uh essentially rift camping warlocks but with rally barricades.
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Not as hard as a titian
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[quote]This is not a Hunter dig post, it's a comparison post using Hunters set up to make a point. Hear me out, in PVP it's no surprise to anyone that Hunters have had the best over all movement (Every perk tree has dodge and their jump options) and get the benefits from those advantages over other guardians in a run and gun game mode where staying in one place isn't how you win. When their jump and dodge is spoken about or brought up, the counter point is "But they are meant to be the mobile class and be agile" Therefore seeming to justify their advantage of snappy movement, slowest cool down on class ability along with it's many benefits. Instant activation, fastest cool down, breaks aim assist also breaks tracking and reloads weapons. My question is where is this same level of justification for Warlocks or Titans being so much better in one filed where they clearly have benefits over Hunters? Warlocks are meant to be the Arcane magic class right? So where's our Arcane magic that dunks on what Hunters have like their movement does compared to ours? (Bearing in mind that Icarus dash is only on one perk tree out of 10 and is being nerfed, and that blink is on one subclass with 4 active penalties working against anyone using it)[/quote] Bungie are hunter fanboys and it takes mass resistance for them to get even slight nerfs. Look at the last twab. Why is the hell did glacier shatterdive not get another nerf???
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Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 8/13/2021 4:47:36 PMWarlocks are the only ones who get nerfed for using their abilities in the manner in which they were designed. Everybody else gets buffed because people refuse to play the characters for how they were designed. When this game finally dies, it's going to be the streamers and the 5000 simps they pass around left, saying "if Bungie had just done this thing everyone wouldn't have left" when none of them realize that everyone other than those people are here to have fun and this game gets less fun every season. Normal people are shown and described by this community as a pack of sheep, like people are just waiting on the fringes for some magical solution. They're not, and making characters weaker because streamers are bored is why 95% of this game's overall player base quit already.
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1 ReplyEdited by Fateless148: 8/14/2021 5:37:43 PMWelcome to destiny. Where common bias can often take precedence over an actual debate. No offense when i say this, but it's sad how much theirs. a lot of heated argument on hunters with their mobility, but it's equally as sad that players will only look at dawnblade most of the time, if it comes to a warlock. Their are decent pvp subclasses warlocks can use nowadays, that can still make a good impact in the metagame. Regardless of upcoming nerfs, dawnblade will still be " viewed" as the best warlock class for both good and bad reasons. All you gotta do to still utilize it is build around the subclass, and do be braindead while using it compared to now, since it currently has such a low ease of use, and a high power cealing. You could utilize top tree stormcaller. Especially in a anti teamshot stratagy. One arcbolt can easily set up a whole 3 stack to stop being but buddies. Same argument goes for top tree nova, except you get a pannick super instead. Bottom tree stormcaller looks to be decent next season, but still yet to be determined. Middle tree arc still has so much going for it without spamming chaos reach anymore. The melee has a decently high power cealing for anti-rush strats. All their kills STILL feed you back ability energy and super energy, and even IF chaos reach truly doesn't hit around corners this time, it's still one of the best shutdown supers we have. Good neutral game subclasses will always be meta relavent. Middle tree nova has the a similar impact middle tree stormcaller can have, just with a roaming super instead. All it's abilities feed into each other. Handhelds are still good 1 shots, just not braindead to use. The melee is the closest melee to a 1 shot, and has a nockback mechanic. Middle tree nova with blink is even better, regardless of if you use astrocyte verse or not. I could go into extensive detail on each perk tree, but these examples up here are what stands out to me the most for warlocks. To answer your question about our identity in pvp, be it arcana related or not, "Us warlocks are a severly impactful pvp contender, mainly focused around having impactful abilities that go hand and hand with each other, and can easily manipulate the match in a "blink" of an eye, to go in their teams favor. We are the best ability related class, only overshadowed by stomp-ees hunters (i mean space monkeys) in terms of meta viability." No offense, but If anybody considers top tree dawn to be our only realistic option, please do yourself a favor, and stop viewing us as hunters who drool over having icarus grip on a ability cooldown. Mobility is important in destiny pvp sure, but it's never been everything. Regardless of how my thoughts make you feel, remember that you don't gotta listen or agree with a single word i say. Im just some random warlock main, who genuinely gives a **** about how you feel, and this topic. Most importantly, Take care, stay safe, and for the communities sake, Eyes up guardians. Become legend.
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1 ReplyNGL, as a fellow Warlock I hear you but know this. It's not worth crying about anymore man. Even though its been like 8 years, I feel like im upset with myself more for poiring such an investment into the Destiny Franchise. I cpuld have been playing so many good single player games over the years as they came out but lucky for me, i have an extensive back catalog of the best PS4 games of all time. As for D2, the gunplay is stale and the magic powrr fantasy is mad limited. Im personally waiting for a new console MMO to drop or just get a PC for something fresh. Im just gonna play campaign, raid once, complete my battle passes and leave bro. Back 4 Blood is coming out in October and Halo: Infinite is coming out as well. If D2 is the only game you play then I sympathize with you but man... Its gonna be a long ass while before this gameplay loop gets good. Trust.
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4 RepliesThe lack of power for Titans and Warlocks in PvP is supposedly justified by having their classes be extra good at PvE. At least that’s the idea.
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2 RepliesEasy, Bungie wants the Warlocks to slow the hell down and just camp rifts in the back of the map like we did in Vanilla D2. Prepare to get bodied by teams of Warlocks camping empowered rifts next season. Y'all wanted this... 🙆
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Well we’ve had blink be good, it’s fun to use but beyond obnoxious to play against…. That being said the pace of the games different and shotguns aren’t what they were a couple months ago so it would be nice if blink was just a good movement ability again on more warlock classes. Had such a unique feel to it
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2 RepliesWarlocks are supposed to be the mage class thats supposed to spam abilities more than any other class. Chaos reach with geomags actually filled that fantasy but like always, if its not movement, its the super or some other BS. At this point bungie should just fuse all classes together into one and call it a day.
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Warlocks have a ton of unique space magic abilities arc soul, handheld, Stasis turret, devour, celestial fire...
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PvP wise Warlocks are the worst but in PvE is where they shine, Easily the best class in PvE with only Thundercrash Titans rivalling them. I play more PvE then PvP so it doesn’t really bother me that they’re the worst in PvP
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7 RepliesDestiny - mass nerfs all over Outriders log in message - all classes have been buffed.
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[quote]This is not a Hunter dig post, it's a comparison post using Hunters set up to make a point. Hear me out, in PVP it's no surprise to anyone that Hunters have had the best over all movement (Every perk tree has dodge and their jump options) and get the benefits from those advantages over other guardians in a run and gun game mode where staying in one place isn't how you win. When their jump and dodge is spoken about or brought up, the counter point is "But they are meant to be the mobile class and be agile" Therefore seeming to justify their advantage of snappy movement, slowest cool down on class ability along with it's many benefits. Instant activation, fastest cool down, breaks aim assist also breaks tracking and reloads weapons.[/quote] You name looked familiar and the I remembered that you're the guy who doesn't like Hunters.
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Hunters are still the slowest class. We literally can't keep up with titans or warlocks because they can just float right past us.
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1 ReplyEdited by Ty’Riis, Kell of the Hood: 8/13/2021 11:33:06 PMAs someone who plays all 3, I promise you warlocks are still the best
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I recently created a Warlock, am I feel so much more mobile now. I’ve played as a hunter for 6 years, and this just feels better. The jump took a little getting used to, but now I’m just zipping across the world.
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I mained a hunter since D1. Recently I started on my warlock and exclusively played it for past month. The amount of speed we have to get from 1 side of the map to the other, no other class has that ability maybe titans. But I'll agree that the hunter jump just feels better overall. But if we are talking speed, warlocks won that argument by a landslide lol
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3 RepliesEdited by AubsTheBelieber: 8/13/2021 6:14:41 PMMeanwhile on LFG and groups, no hunters allowed for VOG, GMs, etc. "Seeking thundercrash with chest piece, shadebinder, etc. No hunters. KWTD". You complain about Hunters while Hunters are seen, generally, as the weakest right now and the community avoids them. Are Hunters really that weak? No. Does the community right now see Hunters as anti-META and refuse to let others bring them? YAAAA HUUUHH
