{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
Edited by Hipposplatamus:
3/17/2020 4:03:11 AM
93
Here are some numbers and facts on 600RPM autos - and it's ridiculous
I've said all this a couple of times before, but I decided to make a post dedicated to this as well.
Also, this applies to [i]all[/i] 600RPM auto rifles, not just Hard Light.
----------------
So, does anyone remember Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten? I'm talking about the pre-nerf version, not the lame version.
They killed in 0.67 seconds. Super, [i]ridiculously[/i] fast for a primary - but they were both [u]really[/u] hard to get, and super unforgiving if you missed even one shot.
Long story short, people thought they were too strong and killed too fast [b][i][u](and very few people had them, keep this in mind)[/u][/i][/b] so everyone complained about them, and they were nerfed - severely.
Now fast forward to season 10. Auto rifles have gotten a big buff. The biggest of them being 600RPM auto rifles, like Hard Light, Gnawing Hunger, and Suros Regime, to name a few.
These auto rifles - in fact, all 600's - now have an optimal TTK of [u]0.7 seconds.[/u] To put that in perspective, that's only [b][u]0.03 seconds slower[/u][/b] than [i]pre-nerf[/i] Luna and NF used to kill, and [i]0.1[/i] seconds faster than 150RPM hand cannons.
In addition to this, auto rifles are [i]super[/i] forgiving. If you miss a shot with a 600RPM auto, it doesn't matter, as you'll just get another one [i]literally 1/10 of a second later.[/i]
Now, why aren't anywhere near as many people complaining about auto rifles? Well, the main reason for that is scarcity.
Remember earlier when I said how very few people had Luna and NF? Yeah, well [b]everyone[/b] has a 600RPM auto - and I mean [b][i]everyone.[/i][/b] Just go into your collections and grab one.
Now, don't get me wrong. I agree that autos needed a buff. But making them so strong that they [i]easily[/i] kill just as fast as two of the most powerful PvP weapons in Destiny's history is a little bit ridiculous.
--
I'll end with one question.
If Luna and NF were too strong for you, how can you justify the current state of auto rifles?
English
#destiny2
-
Edited by Wes: 3/17/2020 2:09:45 PMI'd say most autos are fine. They have to he more lethal than HCs if they are to he competitive, simply because they require constant line of sight and HCs don't. Maybe autos could be less forgiving? I'm not sure. The only auto I'd say is a problem is Hard Light, and that's because it doesn't have a single limitation that all other autos have. 100 stability, 100 aim assist, 100 recoil direction, doesn't require line of sight, no damage falloff, aim assist is still noticeable at 35 meters, 49 round mag...
-
[b]Fact:[/b] Whenever a PvP'ers go-to weapon choice gets impacted and other weapons start to compete with it they will always complain. ALWAYS! Seriously, its just a game. Branch out and try something different. People act like its going to be like this forever. It's Bungie... they will nerf them soon enough and something else will rotate in and take the title of OP.
-
Idk about you but handcannons still prove to be a better option. At least in high level play the autos are not all that great unless your positioning sucks. Hand cannons still have the ability to peek shoot, cause a ton of flinch and a generous hitbox that only requires 3 taps to get a kill. Autos on the other hand requires tracking, cant peek shoot, has trouble landing headshots if going against anything that causes a ton of flinch and strafing and crouch spamming makes it extremely difficult for autos to stay on target. This applies to both pc and console. I agree hard light and possibly suros tend to stand out the most but the rest of the autos in the game are perfectly fine, if you keep losing to autos other than the 2 exotics I mentioned then you need to get better at the game. Its more of a you problem than auto rifles themselves
-
2 RepliesThe meta has yet to solidify. 600s are really good but a play style change is the best counter: peak shoot with a hand cannon
-
10 RepliesLuna and NF were 2 guns. This is an entire archetype of guns, meaning as long as you have a 600 RPM, you can COMPETE. But if you have an exotic you have a slight edge (It is an exotic afterall). Isnt this a -blam!-ing good thing?
-
Edited by TattooedOni: 3/19/2020 5:05:19 AM[quote]I've said all this a couple of times before, but I decided to make a post dedicated to this as well. Also, this applies to [i]all[/i] 600RPM auto rifles, not just Hard Light. ---------------- So, does anyone remember Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten? I'm talking about the pre-nerf version, not the lame version. They killed in 0.67 seconds. Super, [i]ridiculously[/i] fast for a primary - but they were both [u]really[/u] hard to get, and super unforgiving if you missed even one shot. Long story short, people thought they were too strong and killed too fast [b][i][u](and very few people had them, keep this in mind)[/u][/i][/b] so everyone complained about them, and they were nerfed - severely. Now fast forward to season 10. Auto rifles have gotten a big buff. The biggest of them being 600RPM auto rifles, like Hard Light, Gnawing Hunger, and Suros Regime, to name a few. These auto rifles - in fact, all 600's - now have an optimal TTK of [u]0.7 seconds.[/u] To put that in perspective, that's only [b][u]0.03 seconds slower[/u][/b] than [i]pre-nerf[/i] Luna and NF used to kill, and [i]0.1[/i] seconds faster than 150RPM hand cannons. In addition to this, auto rifles are [i]super[/i] forgiving. If you miss a shot with a 600RPM auto, it doesn't matter, as you'll just get another one [i]literally 1/10 of a second later.[/i] Now, why aren't anywhere near as many people complaining about auto rifles? Well, the main reason for that is scarcity. Remember earlier when I said how very few people had Luna and NF? Yeah, well [b]everyone[/b] has a 600RPM auto - and I mean [b][i]everyone.[/i][/b] Just go into your collections and grab one. Now, don't get me wrong. I agree that autos needed a buff. But making them so strong that they [i]easily[/i] kill just as fast as two of the most powerful PvP weapons in Destiny's history is a little bit ridiculous. -- I'll end with one question. If Luna and NF were too strong for you, how can you justify the current state of auto rifles?[/quote] ARs requires sustained headshots to get optimal time to kill. That takes a skilled user and/or an unskilled target. Edit: Until the day the crucible is two players held in one spot shooting each other in the head this kind of comparison isn’t helpful in understanding the game.
-
41 RepliesThat time to kill is only possible if you are accurate. Very accurate. Hand cannon mains are probably the only ones salty about this . But if someone can be super accurate with an auto and achieve that ttk especially on console . They deserve it .
-
I love how people are suddenly complaining about weapons that are easy to obtain and saying "they are the only viable options", yet I'm willing to bet that those complaining about autos were happy with spare Rations and mind benders. Which were the only viable weapons for a few seasons in a row. I love the irony here.
-
I’m just happy we have strong primaries... don’t care what they are....
-
Autos cannot get their optimal time to kill if their opponent uses cover correctly - in fact they’ll lose most duels to good hand cannon players. I embraced hardlight the first week of trials and it’s definitely a strong gun that competes, hand cannons are still better for me though and that’s why I’ve switched back. I’m glad 600’s are up there and if there are any changes then they should be on an individual basis to Suros and Hardlight but I personally feel that’s slightly too early.
-
Yes . They probably buffed them a bit too much. To me they got boring to use pretty quickly.
-
We had a HC meta for almost two years. I’m so ready for that to be over and done with....
-
Buff everything else quit crying for nerfs
-
11 RepliesHand Cannons had their range nerfed because of a few outliers hitting 36m. Im gonna be real and say Hardlight shouldn't be nerfed because it isn't OP. That unlimited range shit has got to go though. Theres no reason an auto should be able to compete with a pulse or scout in it's intended range. That ain't a nerf despite what many will say. It's a fix to oversight, that oversight being not tuning the weapon in anticipation for autos becoming competitive. Well all know this gun will be gone next sandbox update because their idea of balancing the sandbox is having a flavor of the season. Stuff gets buffed. Its stays competitive for a while and then they gut it. They don't nerf for power creep. They nerf to keep players interested with new metas. Old Bungie never had to do this in the Halo days.
-
I don't under-blam!-ingstand...y'all cried about fusions and shotguns being used like primaries....now we crying about primaries being used like primaries? Bungie isn't the only problem with this game. You clowns are impossible.
-
The people -blam!- about luna an nf were the people who couldn’t get them. Everyone has access to a 600.
-
Imma leave this here
-
I say move other weapons up to autos, don't just nerf something else.
-
1 ReplyIts thier plan. Buff all the BS so you wont cry when they take away your Recluse, Redrix, Luna and every other pinnacle you broke your ass to get. They see it if they buff something that makes you put down the weapons you love to use, you will not think much of it when they tell you to go delete them. Its psychology. Like you said, everyone has an AR or 10 laying around and to be at least some what competitive you will need to pick it up to deal with the other nubs and their hardlights.
-
1 ReplyAuto rifles need sustained fire to maintain that TTK. They also produce no flinch in a target.
-
2 RepliesI'd say the biggest difference between pre-nerf LH/NF and the current 600rpm ARs is that you had more movement/engagement options with LH/NF. Pre-nerf LH/NF were still 180rpm HCs which were head and shoulders better than any other sub-archetype because of bloom/recoil, and they had near-perfect in-air accuracy. This meant you could jump, peak shoot, and not worry about shooting ghost bullets due to RNG. Current ARs are tied to the ground. Even with an Icarus Grip, they still don't approach the in-air accuracy on 180rpm HCs. The Exotic ones can't even equip Icarus Grip mods, so their in-air accuracy is hot garbage. Another thing is that ARs can't peak shoot. They have to chisel away at health. This is why I still see current ARs as less of an annoyance than 180rpm LH/NF.
-
2 RepliesIt’s hard to take any of this serious when you make the statement that Luna/NF were “super unforgiving”.
-
Who cares!!!! This world is headed to a crisis level we have never seen before. So what the auto rifle is extreme. Pick one up to and have some fun!!! Lighten up. They will tune down the weapon. I honestly hope they don't. Xbox players are having to much trouble with Live and one day some it maybe gone completely. Has it crossed your mind that PSN could soon have the same issues too? Instead of complaining why don't you just relax and enjoy it until they fix it. Someone will pass away today because of that terrible virus. Smile, laugh, have some fun. Some wish they still could....
-
Edited by Sixclicks: 3/17/2020 1:15:03 PMBalance is closer to the way it should be now. Handcannons still have the advantage of not requiring sustained fire meaning you can pop in and out of cover to easily outplay an auto rifle user. Not to mention a massive amount of bullet magnetism that does half the work for you. Use your weapon to its advantages.
-
You answered your own question mate. Before the changes to comp matchmaking, Lunas was hard to get. The people complaining were those who couldn't get it. Nobody who had it complained. Now everybody has a 600 auto, so who's going to complain? /thread closed.
-
No more nerfs, piss off !!
