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Edited by A Lion of Judah:
3/4/2020 4:39:49 PM
223
Weapon Retirement Poll
Let's have a vote.
Post your reasons below, keep it civil.
[spoiler]unless you're really funny, then go ham[/spoiler]
Edit: care to chime in Cozmo? Dmg?
If so, see below
[spoiler]there have been many great viewpoints on both sides of the aisle.
Overwhelming majority still oppose the change, as it is.
I think the biggest concern, is the grind for a good roll can take an entire season as it stands, that would be insulting to lose it immediately after. Another big concern is, the materials we sink into our favorite guns will be wasted, if we decide to masterwork at all.
Finally, many fear that the weapon rotation from Bungies creative team will not, in fact, be fresh weapon ideas, but simply reskins of old tired weapons, in order to create an artificial gear chase, which would act more like a revolving door, than an evolving world.
If bungie can address these top 3 concerns, that would go a long way to showing some good faith. [/spoiler]
English
#destiny2
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6 RepliesWhile I personally dislike losing the weapons I love, I see the need for it. Hear me out. I’ve had a lot of “you had to be there” moments throughout my engagement with this franchise. The ones revolving around weapons have never been about actually using them. It’s always about the grind to acquire. When I think back on something like Randy’s Throwing Knife, ill always remember how tedious getting all those medals/scout rifle kills was. When I ask my friends what they remember about Not Forgotten, they say the climb to acquire it. Being super sweaty in comp. the feeling of relief when it was finally theirs. That’s the memories I want. If they’re willing to “retire” guns and give us more memories like the ones I mentioned above, I’m ok with letting go. For the sake of argument, (before I hear but re-skins....) Randy’s is basically Black Scorpion. It has been happening since the beginning. And I’m sure it’ll continue. I’m not going to complain. I’m simply going to keep playing for the next big thing. I’ll keep making those memories.
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We won't get new better guns that deserve the "new better" name. If they were, then we wouldn't need a cap on old ones. The new ones would been more worth it to jump to anyway. It's just to up our grind more artificially..
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2 RepliesLove it! We don't need the same pacifier we had when we were born. Time to upgrade to whiskey! Shed those lame ass toys and get some REAL firepower!
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Edited by Sonnabirk: 3/5/2020 8:36:26 AMA poll like this should be posted on the official reddit, without posting there it seems Bungie will not listen. Posting in this forums reminds me of the old days positing on Epics forum for the game Paragon, they couldnt care less about the forums. It was all about listening to fanboys on reddit... And lol in that case the game died because of it.
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Weapon retirement “COULD” be a good thing “IF” bungie had a history of handling it well - but they don’t. They will retire the weapons we spend a lot of time acquiring which will upset a lot of people only to then bring those weapons back for a to grind again in a future season/expansion because our old versions OF THE SAME WEAPON will still be left behind forcing us to grind for a new version. It’s BS, it’s more recycled content, and it’s been a consistent history in this franchise. Destiny 1: Y1 versions of weapons and exotics retired only to regrind for the same stuff added back in a Y2 or Y3 version. Destiny 2: We see the same pattern with armor 2.0 and having to regrind for exotics & armor we have already obtained to get armor 2.0 versions. Now they are talking about doing the same thing with our weapons. Again. 🤦🏼♂️ I don’t understand people who are OK with regrinding for stuff they already got. On top of that this is lazy development because instead of introducing new weapon types and new perks for possible rolls they are just retiring what we have so we can grind out the same roll on the same archetype weapon that just has a different skin. The only thing weapon retirement in destiny does is increase the amount of grind this game has. DESTINY DOES NOT NEED MORE POINTLESS GRIND! If the studio had a history of making new exciting perks and unique weapons that felt awesome then sure, retire after 12-15 months but at the same time, if they had a history of that then they wouldn’t need to retire weapon because we would all gravitate towards the new exciting weapons and gear
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Depends a lot on the exact way they are gonna do it. I can understand the need to make the new loot feel fresh, but at the same time I really fail to see why I shouldn't be able to use something like Misfit as my casual add clearing tool just because I like the futuristic no-nonsense look of it. More options is good, but obsessively chasing the latest stat-increment isn't really my thing. Rather challenge myself a bit more and look good while doing it instead of relying on eye-sore crutches [spoiler]like Izanagi.[/spoiler]
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4 RepliesI just don’t wanna lose my loaded question. I like that gun to much.
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2 RepliesEdited by Jan Michael Vovo: 3/5/2020 4:21:36 AMLuke Smith is obesely morbid
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didnt think people would start writing essays honestly legit no one asked XD I really dont see how weapon retirement is bad, i think Bungies making a good choice. :>
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1 ReplyYou haven’t experienced the change yet. No one has. Shut up and just wait to see what’s it like. You all complain like children it’s a little annoying.
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Edited by Slayer of Worms: 3/5/2020 3:53:21 AMI'm not in favor of the cap idea. What they don't understand is that in order to keep the players satisfied they will need to add more gear faster, creating more work for the entire team. However, here is my crazy plan. They could simply take away the Y1 year with Y2/Y3 versions, transfer those in existence to Y2/Y3 versions (keeping the selected traits and masterwork status), and adding Y3/Y4 versions for year without any, continuing the flow of gear while losing a decent amount of work in the long run. This, I view as a better solution.
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Unless we get FULL vendor refresh, I’m between pretty much against it and MeH.
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Edited by MightyJandal: 3/5/2020 2:52:47 AMI’m against it because some weapons took way too long to aquire wether it’s rng or just unnecessary/ prolonged grind quests. If they’re adamant this is the way forward than please make the rolls we want SIGNIFICANTLY easier to attain than what was previously implemented for certain pinnacles and or improve rng for godrolls by removing junk perks from weapon rolls...who wants rampage or kill clip on a rpg or hip fire on a sniper ffs.
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Bungie did this already, over half the weapons from D2yr1 were left behind after Forsaken dropped. They have been bringing them slowly every season in different places and reskinned.
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It's whatever.... They need to clear space out of this game period. Alot of useless blue gear amongst other things. I really think this whole thing is a band-aid so they can continue their seasonal model until d3 and the new consoles come out. Space limitations will be less and I'm sure a new plan will hatch. They will do whatever they want no matter how much "feedback" they get.
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Edited by IC__H0T: 3/5/2020 1:42:25 AMI don’t care. Maybe I will when it actually happens, but until then I don’t. Maybe they’ll actually make some good loot that stands out for once instead of 1 or 2 sticking and the rest being forgotten
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It's the only way to prevent power creep and force some more regular sandbox turnover, which is a must. How long have we been stuck in a mindless Sparebender meta? Something has to go and make room for newer weapons. I'd like to hear some real, well-thought-out ideas about how to do it differently / better.
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I think the community needed to see this
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21 RepliesFirstly, the first two categories both mean people aren't against it and should have been combined from the start. Now onto the actual edit. Yes a good roll can take an entire season, but to say you'll be "losing it immediately after" is incorrect since the shortest lifespan of a weapon based on the directors cut is at least 9 months. The materials you "waste" masterworking the gun allowed you to use it to it's maximum statistical potential until it becomes retired (and then in any normal content after that). You are getting use out of masterworking it, so it's not wasted by any means (plus let's be honest masterworking weapons isn't all that expensive to begin with). You're final point however I fully agree with. This entire retirement idea hinges on Bungie stepping up to the plate on the creativity front. If they bring back the same perks, people will default to the new version of the weapon with those same top end perk combinations. That would defeat the purpose of this idea and I'm hoping Bungie isn't naive enough to go that route. And to the future commenters that are going to say "duh, of course they are going to reuse old perks and reskin guns", I've already heard that and don't care what you "think" will happen. I want to actually see how it's implemented before saying this idea is a failure.
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4 RepliesEdited by Smoot: 3/4/2020 10:57:37 PMI know that for the most part some (if not most) in the community like to say "lol youtubers dont matter" or something or another, but Datto outlines the issue with the current system beautifully. Regardless of your opinion on the matter, something needs to be changed in regards to how we earn loot and where we are earning it from. The fact that weapons such as Not Forgotten or Luna's Howl or even freaking Relentless (which is stuck in year one mode, and cant be obtained any longer) are all still considered god-tier in the meta, is EXTREMELY, EVEN FRUSTRATINGLY, the single handed worst part of Destiny 2 right now. Outside of weapons like Sacred Provenance, what Raid weapons do you see being used in PvP, or PvE for that matter? What about the Armor set? Do any of you know how rare these items are to see in-game? Those of you who do and still don't want Bungo to retire weapons, do you not see how problematic this is? Sure, maybe, just maybe, there is a better solution. But I can't think of one. And I have yet to hear one come from the forums that wouldn't involve breaking the game. I work full time for...a delivery service...I spend my day babysitting grown ass adults. I don't have time to ponder on the intricacies of specific solutions to this problem and the potential outcomes that could arise from it. The same could be said for 90% of people on the forums, because it is clear from the outrage and responses that NO THOUGHT WHATSOEVER HAS GONE INTO THESE REPLIES. The seasons are too short. I think expanding the length would do much in the eyes of the community to enjoy weapons and the time they spent with them before the weapons go into -blam!- mode. There are problems with this as well, but I won't get into that topic. I have three characters. I have a FULL (500/500) vault. Between these characters, I play one of them regularly. Between these characters, I have one, just one, with one open inventory slot. It's an emblem slot. Until the season of the undying, I hadn't played Destiny 2 all that much, and that is when I carried my character from the PS4 over to PC. I had a 300 sized vault, that I cleaned down to 50. ON ONE F*CKING CHARACTER I MANAGED TO FILL MY VAULT AND THE INVENTORY OF TWO OTHER CHARACTERS I DON'T PLAY WITH GOD-ROLL ITEMS I WON'T USE UNTIL THE ARCHETYPE GETS BUFFED OR I HAVE A SPECIFIC REASON TO US THEM ARISES. SINCE THE BEGINNING OF SHADOWKEEP. I OFFICIALLY RAN OUT OF SPACE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON OF DAWN. ONE SEASON. ONE. I don't raid, noone to play with. All I have been doing is solo competitive, on and off, not regularly. I love that Bungo is doing something.
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The thing i dislike is the continuous grind for loot as new metas will be ongoing for a "short" time.. ive put(or wasted) so much time for weapons and rollls i like already.. if new weapons are a ache to get it will make casual players unattached to game experiences as we will only want to get this or that weapons.. I mean, i like to grind for weapons but if theres new metas every 3 months or so, i wont even show up in pvp or pve activities before i can get a weapon that feels good to me. Those are quite rare already, then it will only be grind or using a tool youre not comfortable with or that is outpassed by new metas..
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2 RepliesIts something that Destiny needed to do. Wonder why all the weapons in D2 suck compared to D1 weapons? In Y1 they were planned initially to rotate out. Remember VoG-Crota? Yeah, couldn't infuse them up. HoW allowed infusion as. testing environment and people thought it would be fine but look at what the meta shapped out to be. The same copy and pasted loadout that broke the end game. That's why they didn't allow infusion of Y1 items in TTK, because they would have broken and invalidated all the content in TTK. RoI was the same story because TTK could infuse up, but they were nowhere near as broken as Y1. Then at the very end of D1, when there was no longer any content planned in the future, they let the Y1 weapons be reacquired to break the game. Because, the game was over, and nothing was going to transfer. So now we have D2, 3 years of no weapon rotation, and compare the weapon power to D1, only things that are close to end game weapons from D1 are what? Pinnacle weapons, adn those got nerfed cause, they broke end game and broke PvP becasue they were so much more powerful than anything else. We won't get any more exciting gear until weapon rotation happens, that is a fact.
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I'm just going to throw this out there..... Now this is just a rough idea.... Bungie use what you have in game already to let us build our own weapons . You have black armory and Menagerie for weapon building use them . Let's use autos as an example you have a generic frame you purchase now select the rpm with ruins which are available now then fill in the rest ruins and rng . Now you have a frame you want to keep you like the rolls , now like the armor let us put skins on the weapons based on the rpm autos , pulse , scouts , hand cannons , shotguns , snipers , GLs , fusions basically every weapon in the game could work off this system . Bungie you have endless skins too use between D1 and D2 and bungie think of the skins you could sell through Tess the mighty blue hoe (sorry had to throw that in )this way you don't have the pressure to come up with new weapons just skins and perks....like make onslaught available on certain rpm autos only ...again this is just my opinion not everyone's if you made it to the end.... [spoiler]have an awesome day!!!!!![/spoiler]
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7 RepliesEdited by Popwatts: 3/4/2020 5:35:27 PMProblem is - at its core nothing changes if they don’t change the perk pool, add diversity and depth to weapon rolls, and make us look forward to new weapons. Retiring my god-roll Blast Furnace, only for me to get a different 450 pulse with THE EXACT SAME STATS AND PERKS is not worth my time. This is what I fear will happen. They need a better plan than just retirement...
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Edited by blade329: 3/4/2020 10:22:10 PMIf there is better loot/perks ahead, I don't mind leaving behind some existing gear. I really liked the loot from this current season. Great stuff with some terrific perks. If they keep doing this, then I'm okay with some of my old loot going bye bye. It's obvious that a lot of the junk the vendors are handing out should be retired.
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The reason why it has come to this is because weapon usage is probably abysmal for the newly introduced weapons. The issue isn't older weapons being too powerful for the content, but rather newly introduced weapons are not bringing anything special to the table. We are getting new looks, new sounds, new feel, but not what matters at the core of gameplay, application. Weapons introduced in new content should provide a clear advantage to that content itself directly. They become highly sought after when they have an unexpected benefit to content outside of their origin. Greatest example is the Recluse. If new content becomes introduced, the rewards should directly increase how powerful you perform withing the content. Heroic/Legend versions of content should almost demand the use of these items via their difficulty, as a portion of them are acquired via the normal and the rest through the higher difficulty version. If they want to see newer weapons get used, it should happen naturally not artificially. Simply relying on a power level system to accomplish this is disappointing. Every time they introduce a new set of weapons, they should include a handful of new and powerful perks. However, if players find a creative way to use older weapons to accomplish things, so be it. One of the most appealing things about the game was the infusion system. It felt really awesome to bring your favorite stuff into new activities. I agree newer weapons need more love, but not by being told our old gear is outdated. Yes, your players understand that light level only matters so much, but there is an artificial appeal of feeling more powerful with a higher light level, it acts as a badge of honor for what we have worked towards. Sometimes your players just want a rock an old favorite and still feel powerful.
