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Edited by ChaoticD:
3/1/2020 1:38:30 AM
71
Game Criticism is "Passion Over Insult". The reason you don't see Compliments
Not everyone has good intentions, but where players are actively complaining and posting feedback shows they have passion for the topic they are bringing up. People have access to complaining anywhere on the internet yet where they complain defines who they are trying to reach. This is the reason most forums for video games don't usually have "Thank You" messages. For most people, something that's not broke and works the way they want, either doesn't need to be addressed or is so well made people don't think about talking about it. Yet the things that people disagree with, or the things that seem broken, stick out to players. Those with "Passion" about the game suddenly have the urge to speak up with the hope that maybe there's someone listening on the other side. Some people don't and just use it as a place to socialize. But video game Criticism is never a bad thing. How developers view that criticism defines their understanding of their own community.
EDIT: Here is another forum discussion on "how the way announcements are being made makes a difference with players": [url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/255346317?sort=0&page=0[/url]
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1 ReplyIf you just start muting people who bring nothing constructive to the table ever, you'd be surprised at how much this forum gets cleaned up. There are a lot of people who do nothing but shit talk here and no one ever sees it because most of the forum have them muted.
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Give someone a good deal, they tell 3 friends. Give someone a bad deal, they tell everyone. Simple as that. We use these forums to try to be heard by Bunghole. They “don’t remember asking”.. I’m just watching the show at this point.
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49 RepliesWell put. Some people don’t realise that criticism leads to improvement. Else we’d still be playing a watered down fashion end game with double primaries. [quote]video game Criticism is never a bad thing. How developers view that criticism defines their understanding of their own community.[/quote] That’s the problem with Bungie. They view criticism as ‘attacks,’ so they continuously shut out and even block those politely point out their many mistakes. Hence they act as if they ‘know better’ and they ‘don’t need customer feedback,’ resulting in continuously dumb and baffling decisions that don’t connect at all with the community. Have you noticed that people always say they’re out of touch with their players? That’s why. It’s a joke that they were nominated for, let alone won, a community award. It was clearly paid for.
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Edited by FdYAcsoyPKN83gLE: 2/29/2020 10:48:18 PMYou can't improve if you ignore criticism, be it negative or positive. We didn't get all the changes we got in Forsaken by rubbing shoulders and praising vanilla D2.
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Lol? Criticism is most effective when it is constructive, however the criticism to the Legendary cap is universally nonconstructive. The reason for the change is clear: indefinite power creep is unsustainable. If the playerbase grasped with that fact, they would be focusing on voicing their concern as well as suggesting alternatives. But instead the closest thing that amounts to legitimate feedback is that this happened in D1, even though the circumstances are different and D2 is going to be a game with a longer lifespan so comparisons are weak.
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22 Replies"I'm leaving because x" isn't criticism, though. Criticism entails giving solutions and not just yelling at the game developer that their decisions are shit. Bungie can listen to feedback and respond accordingly, but people sometimes forget that they need to have some vision to stick to. A lot of this "criticism" is what brought us to D2Y1.
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No no no... There's passion and then there's [b][i] obessession[/i][/b], [b][i]cynicism[/i][/b], and [b][i]toxicity[/i][/b]. You want to be passionate? Fine. [b][i]be passionate[/i][/b]. Take note of the following Calm down if something angers you - emotions =/= facts Avoid divisive, subjective, short-sighted rhetoric - stick to the facts jack. Be engaging, and be open minded to alternatives - you believe to be the [b][i]only[/i][/b] person who plays this game? Make intelligible and reasonable arguments - it goes a long way. Disruption is not a good way to garner attention. This is a videogame...it's nothing life threatening.
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Yeah, theres a difference between criticism and "x should be fired omg why isnt the game the way I want they keep stealing my money waaaah." I'm all in favour of the former...
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5 RepliesPassion?! Hmmm not quite....a lot of undirected toxic , negative , even name calling and attacking posts . I see a post now and again that is giving productive feedback or starting a discussion. This forum is terrible all in all . If I’m in the app I’ll have a scan in the forums for pure entrainment value.
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8 RepliesEdited by WulfPak666: 2/29/2020 7:57:49 PMI find that on these forums, if you want any kind of attention you have to either use super click baity titles or rant about something that either trashes Bungie or trashes one of the classes. I've made several posts in the past with actual feedback, ways to improve the game, changes to certain subclasses (and one of them actually got a response from Bungie and they actually put it in the game 🙂) and they usually don't get much interactions. Then I make a post about a bug that Titans can exploit using Burning Maul and it blows up in 5 minutes and 90% of the comments didn't even know what I was talking about and instead just said, "ooh another crybaby asking for nerfs" and whatnot. 🤣
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20 RepliesEdited by Erijian: 2/29/2020 8:39:20 PMI literally can't go a day without seeing some circlejerk formed by a comment/post saying "x needs to get fired because x is the worst idea ever." Nonstop attacks on the community managers too when they pop into threads, where people act like their cat was murdered by them. Now if you want to believe that's passion go ahead but you're just wrong. This forum is definitely vocal about their insults and most aren't derived from their passion for the game whatsoever. It's just toxicity. I firmly believe that's why Bungie frequents Reddit more than here.
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22 RepliesEdited by thatdudeEd54: 2/29/2020 3:11:08 PMCriticism is one thing. Healthy to give feedback as the community views how the game is not living up to their expectation and provides feedback on there behalf in a respectful manner to help inprove the game. Using the word "Criticism" to outright insult and harrass the devs is cyber bullying. Something that I see all the time in the forums are just mindless people shittalking the devs for fun, and calling it feedback. Sometimes not even with a topic at hand to improve the game.
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3 RepliesI’d argue within this forum, it’s insult over passion. Passion would give more insightful criticism. I mean, I see posts asking questions or tips on the game worthy of discussion that get lost and unanswered by the same angry post spammed across the most upvoted. I see it more as everyone wants their upvotes and couple minutes in the spotlight, attention, rather than having passion. Otherwise, one topic would be the voice of a concern instead of the same thing spammed by a different user every second. This site/app/forum isn’t very inviting. Reddit is a whole different world for a destiny forum. I never use Reddit, but I get a lot more information there on the game.
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2 RepliesThis community doesn’t seem to know what it wants in most cases. So many things have come full circle over the years. It’s hilarious really. Part of why it’s so hard to please is because it’s so diverse. Young, old, hardcore, no life’s, casual to super casual, PvE only, PvP only, list goes on. The only constant Ive seen over the years is people want a reward for doing stuff. Usually they want that reward to be a powerful item to make the game easier. As in meta items. Ever notice how most people’s fav weapon is meta, OP or near OP. No one makes posts about their favorite Wardens Law getting hit by hand cannon nerfs. People just love being powerful and don’t care how that affects the game.
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2 Replies1. Humans are animals. 2. Mother Nature has evolved animals to preferentially attend to things that are negative, uncomfortable, or threatening. Because these are the things that are most likely to threaten that animal’s survival. 3. So where humans are concerned, people who are happy are quiet in their contentment. In fact they may ignore the good things or take them for granted. Whereas people who are angry want the entire world to know that they are angry, and want the whole world to share their distress and share the task of making it go away. But unlike animals, humans can be self-aware, and have the ability to put their discomfort and distress into perspective. IOW, being frustrated with a video game is not a threat to survival and a survival reaction is excessive and inappropriate.
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18 RepliesStop trying to normalize toxicity.
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11 RepliesLol what? No it's not. You are trying to disguise hate/dislike/being negative behind the word 'passion'. I say that cause you can have passion for a game and not criticize it majority of the time. These boards are just full of people that like to talk trash/be negative about the game, and they want others to do it too. Need proof of that, just look at the boards. If you say something positive about bungie/the game, you get insulted with various name calling; you say something negative about the game/bungie, people cheer you on. Also, society has taught people that complaining gets you attention while being nice doesnt, hence the saying 'the squeaky wheel gets the oil'. People/companies/society focus on the negative. It's a reason that compliments tend to go ignored, while complaints get addressed. One last thing: because of how easy it is to share thoughts/opinions/etc, social media has people thinking they know more about things than the people whose jobs it is to do said things. In this case, people that play video games for fun/a hobby, like to act like they know how to make video games better than devs. That's why you always see so many 'ways i would fix the game' posts. It's not as easy as you think.
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The fact that most whining on the board is so comically uninformed and/or dishonest sort of undercuts your point. Someone being passionate about the game doesn't explain the completely bizarre obsession with Eververse that makes up a huge chunk of the forum. A couple times I've scrolled through Eververse wondering what I'm missing. "Passionate" board posters seem to be convinced that "all new items, etc" are in Eververse when it's just a bunch of completely optional flare stuff. The fact that so many people zero in on the tiniest thing they can find and then blow it way out of proportion suggests they just like to whine.
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1 ReplyGamers nodding to this to justify treating devs like shit lolol
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Edited by The Hermit IX: 3/2/2020 1:50:15 AMWhen they do good things I not only post accolades but I defend them. My post history during Shadowkeep shows that. But when they do things like constant nerfing or introduce a failed philosophy like weapon rot... I’ll speak my mind of how it damages the game. They have a history of disconnect from their player base. They need to do what they have to for their vision of the game but when they trample a players time invested, they should expect a a backlash. I think they’re capable of building the game and at the same time value their player base.
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Well said. Yet Bungie lets people down all the time...
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2 RepliesThe real problem is unless you post on Reddit, Bungie either doesn't see your post or just ignores it.
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1 ReplyYou definitely have to constantly complain for anything to change within this game. I’ve seen plenty of people offer nice and polite criticism here in the forums and they get completely ignored. If the forums aren’t filled with the issue then more than likely it won’t get addressed. Complaints and even insults are completely understandable when you literally have years of experience with video games and designing them but you choose decisions that will more than likely be unwelcomed by the community. Polite Criticism or not, problems are problems and they should be addressed. Yes people are mean and toxic but that’s the internet, that’s the world and if you can’t even handle mean words then the world will spit you out. Not handing problems because people are mean is a sorry excuse.
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31 RepliesThe reason you don’t see compliments are because there is no reason to compliment Bungie. This game is half way through its 10 year vision and Bungie still doesn’t have a clue what that vision is. Obviously this statement ads nothing to the topic but I believe it pertains.
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Most people don’t say “thank you”, because that’s just how people are. Most people will not go back up to the counter at a fast food restaurant and thank them when their food came out good. But if there is a problem with it some will go up to the counter to complain. Most people actually say nothing regardless. The terms “vote with their wallet” or “vote with their feet” is used in retail and service industries. It means most people say nothing. If they have a bad experience you will just never see them again. They provide no feedback I’m other than whether their patronage is repeated or not.
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You also don't see compliments because the moment you give one you get rammed by toxicity. And I don't mean "passionate players." I mean 100% unfiltered toxicity.
