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Edited by Kuno_Ushinawa:
12/23/2019 10:58:10 AM
25
Can we have a civil disscusion about titans in PvP?
So I've seen a lot of rants, a lot of uncouth name calling, and a lot of threats back and forth between different people and titan mains about how busted titans are in PvP. I will also point out that I have read zero posts about hunters being broken and just one post about warlocks being broken. Now I haven't been playing very long, only a few months, however in the short time I have been playing I've become very annoyed by two things:
1.) Bungies desire to force me to play PvP (Whether for exotics, PvE quests, or as is currently happening, for season pass quests)
and
2.) Titans in crucible.
Now I've asked myself why exactly titans are the worst thing (other than some god awful maps) about PvP:
Is it that they are just jerk players? Not anymore than hunters or warlocks.
Is it that they overly focus on me or another player? Not anymore than hunters or warlocks.
Do they message me and talk shit? Nope.
Why were the funnest matches I've had in pvp made up of only hunters and warlocks?
Why is it that so many streamers agree that titans are the worst part of PvP?
Why is it that when I run into a titan in crucible the only thing that goes through my head is: "I'm f***ed, this is bs"?
If I had this reaction to all three classes then that would mean I'm just shit at crucible. So what is it then?
Is it that they have one hit melee? Is it that their supers have AoE? Is it that they take more to kill? Why are titans so seemingly broken?
In almost every match I can figure out which people are playing titans, usually when they kill me.... in one hit, with their regular melee. But at the end of each match I can find their names and every time (with only a few deviations) they are the players with the best KtD ratio. So just by the endgame results we can see data that points to titans being unbalanced. But again which thing makes them unbalanced?
Well let's look at AoE, both solar and arc are very AoE heavy and seem to be crucible favorites. The solar class is healed by kills with it's super... and that's what makes that broken. A solar titan can kill a fire team easily with their solar super and not loose any health because of this (and yes the warlocks ring of light is pretty broken as well). I've had a single solar class titan sit at one end of a hallway and lock my whole entire fireteam in a room, we couldn't deal damage fast enough to kill him. That's pretty bad design. The arc just has a large AoE meaning you can't run away and the titan doesn't even have to have good aim.
Now do I think every aspect of titans need to be nerfed? Nope.
Do I think titans should be banned from PvP? Nope.
Do I think PvP would be better without supers? Absolutely.
Do I think that will happen? Absolutely not.
I think reducing (slightly) the healing of solar titans (and warlocks ring of light) and the AoE range of titan arc super would do wonders for the health of PvP, and this reduction should only be in pvp. While one hit melee is super annoying I don't think it's the problem, and it makes sense that titans are a bit tankier than hunters and warlocks. I think it's just having a trifecta on one class that made them seem so broken.
Now I'm sure some of titan mains are going to start slinging insults and saying this is all bs and titans are fine. But that was not the intent I just want to see this game be more fun for everyone, and see if others have better suggestions for this conundrum.
-
Edited by an Ape with a d2 addiction: 12/23/2019 11:47:02 AMA respectfully toned post is rare in this forum. Trying to answer in kind. Will offer counter-arguments and perspective in spirit of discussion, not flaming. Titan main for the past 7 months or so. Forcing pve into pvp via pvp steps in pve quests should absolutely not be a thing. All it creates is unhappy folks and angry forum posts. From what I understood you have a misunderstanding that titans are tankier / have more health / more damage reduction in pvp. This is factually wrong. All classes have default 186 health at 0 resilience. Resilience works the same for all classes (barring the recent class ability CD changes) and is universally not a very valuable pvp stat in comparison to recovery. There's no subclass, armor or exotic that offers passive, always applied damage reduction on any class. Bottom tree solar throwing hammers super is very strong right now. Has sorta always been, just overshadowed by other sub-classes. All solar class-supers traditionally tend to have shorter durations with more AoE / quick ranged teamwipe potential. Think 6-shooter golden gun, daybreak. Arc supers had traditionally longer duration and more melee-range oriented kills. In that spirit I think the damage side is fine with bottom tree solar titan. The duration is fine in comparison to the kill potential. Warlock daybreak behaves very similarly. The health regen on kill is also a perk on that specific sub-class. Health regen on super kills is too strong on any class. Bottom tree striker just had a similar health regen on super melee kills aspect removed/nerfed completely for a good reason. It makes a super too hard to shut down and too easy to streak with. I agree this is something that would be a viable nerf on bottom tree hammers. Titan arc subclass supers dont really have noticeable AoE ability. Missile is one thing but that's a shut-down super anyway. Personally at least on PC / MnKB I don't see shoulder charges as a problem. A shotgun OHKs from a longer range. It's a hard counter to shoulder charge and a better close range OHK tool. The shoulder charge sub-classes tend to have little or no utility besides that one ability that's not a really viable tool, at least in PC high skill brackets. Honestly thinking back long term, the titan are OP -mentality started gaining more and more traction as this year went on. There were 2 main reasons for this: one-eyed mask and bottom tree striker super being completely busted. OEM was/sorta is still self-explanatory. Bottom tree roaming slam used to have way more duration, damage resistance AND health regen on kills. The slam has been nerfed to ground. Duration, resistance and regen all removed to good levels. OEM tracking is still too strong, but removing the overshield at least curbed the quickplay pugstomping potential. The 2 main reasons that created the titans = OP echo chamber are gone, but the community mentality is still there. -edit- Before someone argues it, middle tree solar throwing hammer melee is not a default OHK ability. It does 153 damage with solar plexus and 189 damage with plexus stacked with x1 roaring flames, which only OHKs 3 resilience and lower.
