Raid mm will never ever work and anyone that's completed one says as much. There is no point in wasting the already extremely limited dev time and resources we have on something that will have a 99.9% failure rate and likely lead to players clamoring for mechanic nerfs. Let's be real: the players that know what they're doing will continue to use lfg, thier friends or clan, therefore the only people you'll find in raid mm will be other clueless players. I see tons of posts here complaining about randoms in strikes, gambit, reckoning, etc and those activities dont come close to raid difficulty. In fact the only reason menagerie works with matchmaking is there is no possible way to fail it. Additionally if guided games - a system where 5 of the 6 players know each other was an absolute failure how would 6 full randoms go? Its boils down to this: If you have 4 hours to waste wiping in a matchmade raid you had plenty of time to find a lfg group and stand a far higher chance. The players who want raid mm are typically the same ones that are mad they cant join a lobby thats asking for completions and checks, to be frank they're looking for a carry from a good group and arent interested in putting in the effort to become that kind of player themselves. Same with mm, they for some reason think good groups will be searching raid mm and they can hop in for the free loot

Your points are spot on

[quote]I've seen the topic pop up many times in the last 2 weeks and I think those ideas should be quashed now before they gain any momentum. For that matter, guided games needs to just die also and replaced with instructions on how to LFG. Why? Because matchmaking in this game is historically bad. There are many times where I've been put into lobbies with people who just go AFK, have no mic, or simply don't want to do the event. "Yay there are 4 people at this escalation protocol already!" oh wait, 2 of them are standing under the bridge emoting to one another. Great. When talking about MM raids, the problem is this idea that such a feature would have a eutopian impact. Fact is that it would have all the same problems as all the other matchmade activities in D2. 1. People only there to complete a bounty and then quit. 2. People going AFK because they need completions. 3. People leaving because things aren't going their way. Then you have the problems you all damn well know exists. 1. No solo players ever use a mic or the in-game chat. Some don't even listen to the in game audio and have music playing instead. On top of the existing matchmaking problems, you can raid specific problems like: 1. That one dumb kid who brings an exotic bow heavy to a riven fight and won't change it when everyone else is doing 800k damage and he's doing 20k. 2. Players who quit out because the other 5 people couldn't carry them through a Petra's run or don't want to do leviathan challenges this time around. 3. Players who swear they've done it before, but haven't and have only watched a Khakis HD video which is like having calculus explained to you by a 10 year old and thus have no clue what to do. 4. People who show up expecting to do minimal effort, volunteer for the easiest tasks, and generally just sit there while everybody else does the hard work. And so the logic is you want to take those two sets of problems and combine them together? And this is supposed to be better? I'm sorry, I'm all for inclusion and I don't even boot people who've never finished a raid before when I LFG posts. However, I can't see a raid MM resulting in a successful completion except in maybe 1 out of every 100 instances and that's a very generous guesstimate. Between the no mic solo players, this game's connection issues, and the fact that this community has a segment of players who actively exploit others by going AFK or quitting when they don't need to finish the event (rmeber EAZ? Remember bad juju? Don't pretend those folks don't exist in huge numbers), it just doesn't make sense. The only reason it works for other activities I because those other activities don't require precision or actual teamwork to do. I've dragged 2 AFKers through strikes before. It sucks, but it doesn't affect my progress. Raids need communication, teamwork, and at least a somewhat decent attention span. There's very little chance of 6 random people making it all work unless all 6 of them have done it before and even then, if at least 3 of them don't have mics, it's game over. In short, you can't brute force a raid like you can with literally every other event in the game. Raids are not solo player friendly and they never will be. Being MLG good doesn't translate to a raid completion. I'll take 5 average ass players with good teamwork skills over the 5 best solo crucible players on earth literally 100% of the time. In a eutopia where everybody had mics and everybody was in it to win it? Sure it might work. On pc where you have a text chat? Might work. However, D2 is mostly console and you don't have to look far on Reddit or these forums to find 100s, if not 1000s, of posts from people complaining about bad teammates, AFK blueberries, quitters, griefers, and people expecting carries. The idea that all is going to magically disappear is naive at best and ignorant at worst. The reality doesn't match the idealism. Yes, LFG and clans would still exist, but well meaning people would go into MM and never finish the thing and it'll just make them hate that section of the game even more. After a bit, it'll end up just like guided games, a useless appendage Bungie pays people to maintain when their staff could (obviously) be better served helping the parts of this game people actually use. For a company that complains almost monthly about their strenuous work schedule, diverting resources to this pipe dream doesn't make any sense. Finally, there's length to consider. It takes about 45-75 minutes for an experienced team to clear a proper raid. It takes 30-45 minutes to clear a raid lair. Maybe a bit longer if you're being lackadaisical about it. With inexperienced players, those times balloon significantly due to wipes, careless mistakes, and general misadventure. If you have a couple of hours to learn a raid, you have 20 minutes to find an LFG party to help you. Sorry, but down with raid MM. It'll never work.[/quote]

I say put it in and let people find out the reality. Dealing with champions etc in 920 Ordeals is already super sketch (for real, NOBODY runs Overload rounds it seems lol), and thats just simple loadout co-ordination.

As long as one can assemble their own fireteam and it works as it does now as well as choose to matchmake a team and have it work like strikes, then I have no problem with it. I don't believe matchmaking a raid team would be successful but as long as it doesn't affect me, I wouldn't keep it from being used by others.

You know matchmaking is bad because there is no kick option right? People just afk farm because they have no fear of wasting their own time. There's no reason not to have a kick option in groups