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Edited by Wes:
2/7/2019 1:39:07 AM
309
Not Forgotten and Luna's Howl are a Problem
So before anyone throws a fit, I have Not Forgotten. I got a group, I practiced, I succeeded and died succeeded and died over and over again, got good as a team and got it.
Not Forgotten and Luna's Howl are way too forgiving and dominate the game.
The gun does nothing except discourage players from playing PvP, even in quickplay. I get it. Pinnacle weapons need to be strong and PvP players needed something to grind for, but these guns have gone too far in the right direction. Pinnacle weapons should be fun and powerful in the right hands, and 180 RPM hand cannons have a very low skill requirement due to their high stability and recoil direction. This normally results in a slow TTK, but LH and NF negate this entirely with 2 headshots and a body. Ace of Spades even requires 3 headshots to kill. This results in people winning engagements because they have the better gun, rather than the better movement and aim.
As for a solution to these guns, I have no idea. Nerfing them, removing then from QP, or altering them will be met with a bunch of anger and lashing out. My best ideas (not perfect by far) are:
1. Make them exotics. Maybe then people will have a harder time choosing them and their choice will matter more.
2. Make Magnificent Howl activate after three precision hits, making it a 4 shot kill on the first target and a 3 shot kill on the next, as long as you continuously hit crits.
3. Nerf the perk so it takes 3 consecutive headshots to kill. That way the gun isn't as forgiving and requires a larger amount of skill to use appropriately.
4. Make them kinetic weapons. The best primary shouldn't be able to he pairs with the best shotgun in the game honestly. (Precision shotguns need a rework. Dust Rock Blues has very few downsides compared the aggressive frame shotguns.)
5. Decrease their stability and recoil direction significantly. The guns can honestly be spammed and be affective due to the flinch the cause and their stability and recoil direction and still be very, very effective. This is especially true in team engagements, but is also true for 1v1 engagements.
6. Combinations of those above.
I hope the guns aren't nerfed into the ground, but some adjustments are necessary. I don't even use mine.
Edit: The other solution to this issue is one I completely forgot to mention. Buff other hand cannons. 140s should kill in 2 crit 1 body. Balance the others from there. 180s should probably stay the same or have more recoil.
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Nerf the Dust Rock and Wardcliff instead because even if they have Not Forgotten that’s all they seem to use in Quickplay. Making them exotic is something I wouldn’t mind on paper, but I love pairing the Chaperone with my Luna so idk.
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2 RepliesEdited by SLOBBISHORCA: 2/5/2019 11:47:36 PMBut I will say I don’t have either. And being from using d1 handcannons it was tough for me to get use to trust I’m just so use to the recoil I would body shot people for days. Now that I’m used to it it makes me want to get Luna. The problem with nerfing it is that’s about where most people want the ttk in this game more close to the d1 crucible ttk. Right now all weapons have the same headshot ttk as d1 but are less forgiving which makes it feel sluggish in a game like destiny where in the past bodyshots were more forgiving. And I know all players of all skill levels feel it. At least on console where your gun actually recoils.
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4 RepliesPeople are forgetting why 180’s are the most consistent hand cannons on console. One word: bloom. 150’s, 140’s, and 110’s have too much bloom on console. 180’s bloom is manageable because the shots don’t go out of control like the other archetypes. Remove bloom altogether and half the people whining here will stop. The others will continue whining regardless because they’re bad at the game and need something to blame for their unimpressive crucible performances.
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don't worry, bungie said in last weeks twab that they'll be addressing the hand cannon shaped elephant in the room this week.
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1 Reply[i][b]The biggest issue I have with Luna is I forget its just a hand cannon and not a sniper rifle![/b][/i] I hate people calling for nerfs every 2 seconds but ahhhhhhh, My answer then? I have no desire for PvP as I don't 'currently' find it fun. 'IF' I wanted to make it fun again I'd take a day or seven and find a load out I feel comfortable with, with the current meta's, learn to adjust my game play and boom I'm having fun in PvP again. I just choose to spend my limited time in other D2 activities I, personally, enjoy more. As an aside and all that being said, I love Mayhem because it's a just an all balls out kill and be killed insanityfest I really enjoy. If I get tired of Shards+BB or Nova Bombs I switch to my Shards and BB, or warlock. the only mistake I made last week was using it for my TLW kills. I did good, got cautious went into QP and am almost back at the beginning now. Oh well, I'll deal with that a different day.
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Plently of weapons outgun lunas..ive done it plently of times with truth and jade rabbit.... nf not so much lol
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Got Luna’s but didn’t have the patience to bother for NF. I’d prefer they remove magnificent howl altogether and make Luna and not forgotten guns that have very high stats and that’s where their power comes from instead of a overpowered perk
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6 RepliesJotuun is way more of a problem... this thing will blow you up if it hits you in your baby toe and has a minor tracking perk in it... I've been in matches where people 4 stack it and use nothing but jotuun the entire game
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Here’s my idea: Last word has incredibly punishing range fall off damage. Do the same to Luna. NF can stay the same you guys earned it, but give that damage falloff to Luna (or just 180’s in general or something) and then give that extra damage bullet just enough crit damage to three tap. You could also make the flinch more punishing as well.
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5 RepliesHow about they just lock Luna/NF out of quick play. there problem solved. Or is that too simplistic.
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Make the perk only work on precision damage. That would make it require 3 headshots for the optimal TTK and would still give the 2-tap potential on a follow up kill.
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Edited by TheUnknown_174: 2/6/2019 8:57:54 PMUnpopular opinion, or maybe just one not thought of by many. [b]If they nerf the best mid-close range primary, shotguns get even better. [/b] Okay, not truly better, but better by comparison; more reliable. Because right not if I rush someone with a shotgun, and they quick 3 tap me I lose out on that fight [i]and[/i] will be more hesitant to rush with a shotgun in that match. TLW certainly helps there, but it's less versatile than LH/NF - especially on console. So, be careful what you wish for, folks. Edit: P.S. We've seen something like this before in D1 - they kept nerfing primary weapons, and soon nothing could challenge snipers. Snipers never got better, but they became more effective due to the lack of competition. Thorn, Hopscotch, Messenger, etc. all got nerfed, and suddenly snipers were unquestionably king.
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Yeah I stopped using Luna since it’s the most boring thing to use. So unsatisfying si I’ve just switched back to ace. I hate that this thing exists.
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3 RepliesHi Wes
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7 RepliesThe way it should have been since destiny has never been in a position where the best gun in the game or at least a similar meta weapon isn’t available to all. Luna - quick play rank legend Not forgotten- comp rank legend
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I have Luna and think it's balanced, it's range is a little far to be honest but beside that it's a cqb weapon in my opinion and should have more damage drop off but otherwise it's balanced. But NF is a joke, I've been outgunned by NF at long range while using a GR nightshade. Why on earth give a skilled played, a hand cannon that has such a fast ttk that much range and can compete with pulses and scouts.
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git gud
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2 RepliesFinally a suggestive post from somebody who has this weapon other than a "git gud" I dont have NF or Lunas as I'm not good enough but lately I feel sorry for people or rock the luna/nf dust rock wardcliff meta. It's sad. What's funnier is occasionaly beating these guys in a 1v1 with my misfit or other non meta weapon. I tend to stay in the same lobby with these guys and they never change loadouts which has me seriously questioning their skill. Want to impress me? Go 35 kills with a bow and sniper or after your lunas win or an auto just anything other than this laughable stale meta. That said they are pinnacle weapons so I agree. Make them exotics and I think the perk should be change so that these guns can 2 tap AFTER the first kill and only with precision kills and shots thereafter.
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As someone who is constantly running into a 4 stack with the dustrock luna/nf wardriff coil combo in quickplay I have many reasons to hate the guns but to be honest I really do support the idea of having these pinnacle rewards and I think if you earned the weapon you should be able to use it. It's when I'm in quickplay trying to screw around with weird loadouts I might as well be banging my head against a wall trying to not get shit on by players sweating their asses off. I'm partially in the "git gud" mentality of if you want it you should put in the effort to earn it, but for solo players I understand how that would be an absolute nightmare, I mean it's rough enough going through comp with a team of friends. So that being said I think a solution to keep the guns a strong pinnacle PvP weapon as to not diminish the efforts of those who've earned them, while balancing them a bit more to open up some other loadout options for those who don't have them would be to make magnificent howl only kill on a 3rd headshot rather than 2 and a body. There's just too much leeway (with the amount of aim assist on console) for a weapon that powerful and it's the only damage buff in the game that doesn't require a kill to trigger. 2 headshots with a 180 is almost guaranteed with how stable they are, so I think requiring a 3rd headshot would make those kills seem less free by rewarding those with good aim and players wouldn't feel as annoyed dying to that because they needed that 3rd headshot and therefore deserved the kill rather than the 3rd bullet scraping by my left ankle, same as how I feel about sniping (if you hit my head then good on you m8). Anyways those are my thoughts let's figure this out fam peace.
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2 RepliesPretty sure the issue isn't that NF and Luna's are too strong. Its just that every other option is -blam!-ing garbage. Say they nerf NF and Lunas to the ground all it does is slow the meta down and you still won't see the comeback of snipers/smgs/sidearms/bows/pulses besides 390s and 4 bursts/scouts/150 hand cannons/fusion rifles. It'll still be heavily dominated by Ace/Shotgun or Shotgun/Hand Cannon because the other weapons are so -blam!-ing horrifically bad its not even worth considering them. Hell even in PvE your best best is an auto shotgun/hand cannon or a sniper/hand cannon in rare occassions. You never see ARs in play or any exotic that isn't whisper because all your other options don't even reach the "barely viable" category.
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2 Replies[quote]1. Make them exotics. Maybe then people will have a harder time choosing them and their choice will matter more.[/quote] Not really a good idea. It’s a good gun, but it’s not worthy of taking up an Exotic slot. [quote]2. Make Magnificent Howl activate after three precision hits, making it a 4 shot kill on the first target and a 3 shot kill on the next, as long as you continuously hit crits. [/quote] Not that great either. [quote]3. Nerf the perk so it takes 3 consecutive headshots to kill. That way the gun isn't as forgiving and requires a larger amount of skill to use appropriately. [/quote] Only reasonable suggestion, but do you honestly think that reducing the damage will change anything? Most people are still going for the head anyways. [quote]4. Make them kinetic weapons. The best primary shouldn't be able to he pairs with the best shotgun in the game honestly. (Precision shotguns need a rework.)[/quote] Changing them to kinetic won’t change anything. You’d just have weapons like Wavesplitter, Le Monarch, and Badlander being paired with it. [quote]5. Decrease their stability and recoil direction significantly. The guns can honestly be spammed and be affective due to the flinch the cause and their stability and recoil direction and still be very, very effective. This is especially true in team engagements, but is also true for 1v1 engagements. [/quote] Takes away from the purpose of being a precision frame hand cannon. [quote]6. Combinations of those above. [/quote] Bad idea. Very bad.
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All I can say is I’ve completed all of the crucible quests over the years and my kd gradually improved ( at one time I did go positive! I was bad) . Since the new quests for last word and lunas dropped my kd has dropped off the scale. I cannot compete in any way with the h/c hunter guys. I’ve tried hard but can’t. I enjoyed the grind, gradually improving but now just feel totally outcast and just canon fodder. You can stick crucible now. Im so annoyed with it I actually played Assasins creed today for the first time 🙈
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3 RepliesSolution is make Luna a random drop in PVP like Aysaluna. That way, everyone has a chance to get it. Not Forgotten can say as is, if you grind to hit 5500 then good on you. That being said, though, hit 5500 is probably enough of a reward, bragging rights; so Bungie could make Not Forgotten attainable at 2100. The elites will cry!!! Boo hoo!! But screw the top 1%. They are not the game.
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I literally said this 4 months ago. Wth? Am I a ghost?
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2 RepliesLuna/NF spam has killed the game for me
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2 RepliesEdited by iCarnie: 2/6/2019 4:35:27 PMI like the idea of making Not Forgotten exotic but thats about it. I like it Alot and I'm a NF owner as well (Wes I was actually part of your team for awhile). But maybe give it more range or drop mag to fit exotic better. Especially if we couldn't equip extended mag. [spoiler]shotgun range do need to be slightly decreased...I want to run an SMG so bad in comp [/spoiler]
