EDIT PREFACE: If you like the timer, ask yourself this: If they remove the timer, what changes FOR YOU? You can still rush through it and have no fun and get your reward, nothing changed. So what makes you so opposed to removing the timer? You just want to make sure noone else who is worse than you gets anything you got? Are you a 5 year old? So what if someone sits back and takes 2 hours to beat it, why does that change anything for you? You still played it for 25 minutes and got the reward. Also, why not raise the difficulty higher then, to a point where you cannot beat it, because only people better than you should be able to play the nightfall? Why is it that only this difficulty and only a timer are acceptable to you? You keep asking why I say "blindly," these questions should make that extremely clear and if you are still stuck on your "skill" argument, see "EDIT 5." If you do not complete the game in the amount of time given, you lose. This I would say most people do not find fun. The point of games is to play with YOUR style the way you like to play, not be pigeon holed into playing with everyone using the same loadouts and skipping past every part they possibly can. It would be like saying Super Mario 64 can be beaten in 6 minutes, so if you don't beat it in that time, you lose, and the game is too easy if that timer is not there, and there is no other way to make it more difficult, except adding that timer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTzs9bcNgMQ Do you think Mario 64 should have a timer because it makes it harder? Or should people play the game the way they like to play and find the challenges in completing sections that they are not as strong in? Adding a timer does not make it the nightfall more difficult, all it does is remove styles of play and personality from the nightfall. As is, everyone uses the same loadouts and the same weapons and rushes through as quickly as they can removing all sense of playstyle or personal preference from the game. I still don't understand what was wrong with Wipe to orbit. You still have incentive to play more quickly, (to get reward faster AND if you do take an hour then wipe, it hurts pretty bad) but the option not to also. EDIT: Not to mention, there are only 2 PVE end game activities in which you can earn gear to get above 265 public events and nightfalls. So basically, if you don't play pvp, (let me guess, you want people to be forced to play pvp too) then there is actually no way to even level up to play the raid other than the nightfall and playing the same public events over and over. The only reason I even played the nightfall was literally for the reward, not a single time did I replay a nightfall, or know ANYONE who did for fun. (other than youtubers to create content) So what you are suggesting is that if you don't like the timers, then just go play the same public events over and over and over if you want to progress. EDIT2: I have no issue completing the nightfall, have done so on all three of my characters every week, without any issue, first try. (except this week, no motivation to do them) I just don't think they are fun to play that way, and there are a million other ways to make something challenging. Sucks to not want to play an entire mode of the game because there is a pointless timer and it takes all the fun away. I would be doing nightfall strikes 5-10 times a week if there was no timer, just playing it different ways and having fun, rather than just rushing through it for a luminous engram. Also, if the timer is removed, you can still play just as fast as you want, or time yourself, if the timer is added, you have no option but to rush through the whole thing. The biggest complaint from timer lovers is without it people sit back, my question is, why do you care what anyone else does or how they beat it? How does that change ANYTHING for you? Sounds like you guys are just elitists who want some reward because you think the way you play is superior to the way someone else plays. The reality is, you probably aren't that great, and if we are just placing arbitrary timers for difficulty, why set the timers and anomalies where they are now? Why not take away 5 minutes. Would that then be too difficult? If so, why would that matter, challenge is good right? Specifically only the challenge of a timer is good though, any other challenge is not because people may solve that challenge in different ways.... such as being careful and taking their time, or maybe, just having fun. My biggest question is this, if the timer is removed, What changes FOR YOU, if you like being timed? Are you unable to play at that pace if the timer is removed? How does it affect you at all if the timer is removed? Just keep playing it exactly like you do, and you are good to go. EDIT3: Sounds like everyone in favor of the timer does not understand that something can be challenging without a timer, or that it is possible to beat the nightfall just fine, but still think the timer is not fun. If you are one of those people, I am not talking to you, you are the exact blind fanboys I am talking about. EDIT4: You guys worry about the nightfall being easier than it is now, but then proceed to be perfectly fine with getting free clan from your clan, where you are most likely a freeloader, fine with public events giving almost unlimited loot if you want to just waste your time and play them over and over, but if someone beats the hardest mode in the game (the nightfall is easily harder than the extremely easy raid, both not terribly difficult) in a way other than rushing through, suddenly the world is ending. EDIT5: Here is why I don't understand the "get gud" or you aren't good enough argument (separate from the fact that I beat it easily) -Group 1: misses 5 anomalies, fails by ten seconds, would have taken a total of 24m:11s had time not run out, they fail -Group 2: miss 0 anomalies, finish with 3 seconds remaining, take a total time of 26m:27s and succeed. According to you, group 1 has no skill and needs to get better despite being more effective running the nightfall, but didn't spend 20 minutes before hand watching a video to find all the anomalies. Why? However your concern with no timeer is that people will spend an additional 20 minutes (or less) to sit back and take their time to beat the nightfall? And see no irony?