I'm writing this because there seems to be a massive misunderstanding of what these terms actually mean. Specifically I see gamers up in arms about something being called cheap and acting as though it were being labeled as OP or Broken when that isn't always the case.
Cheap simply means that something is easy to pull off or that you can get more results from less effort. Environmental hazards are a clear example of this. If you can pull the trigger on a pea shooter pistol and blow up an explosive barrel to net an instant kill or even a multi-kill, that's cheap. Stated as fact cheap has nothing to do with any abstract Honor Code or level of skill on the part of the player. It only cost you one low damage bullet to possibly kill several players. That's pretty cheap, or to put it another way, it's very cost effective.
Is it avoidable? Sure, stay away from the barrel. If it were unavoidable somehow THEN it might be broken.
Is it OP? Nope. Explosive barrels deal a ton of damage but they only cover a specific area. The power is offset by its inability to effect anything outside that area.
But OP doesn't mean Broken either. For example if a SMG has a high rate of fire, high ammo capacity, is extremely accurate and deals almost as much damage as an Assault Rifle at Rifle ranges, then it definitely has more power then it probably should. It's unbalanced but may still be countered by a shotgun or long range rifle. If it can also kill at marksman distances or take out shotgun users before they can get a second shot off, then it might actually be broken.
These are the simplest, clearest examples I can come up with but it's the same for melee combat or spell casters. If a character has abilities that require little effort or risk but put out big rewards, they may be cheap. If said character has abilities that cover or counter a wide range of combat scenarios with only one or two minor drawbacks, they just might be OP.
However there are gamers who do not use the term cheap as a point of fact. They throw around the word cheap as a possible insult to another player's Skill.
Take this into consideration then.
Part of figuring out a game's META is finding the cheapest and easiest ways to Win. Solid game METAs are established by the highest tier of gamers who dedicate hours upon hours to the game in question. Another major task of these top tier META gamers is finding a way to counter those very same cheap and easy tactics.
So yes, lots of things are in fact cheap.
And Yes, cheap things do have counters.
But that doesn't make them any less cheap.
Good day and Happy gaming.
English
#Gaming
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Cheap: Ice Climbers OP: Jigglypuff Broken: Fox.
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3 RepliesCheap - easily exploitable, but working as intended. OP - functioning above its intended use, but working as intended (e.g. A pistol with the stopping power of a shotgun and the range of a sniper). Broken - not functioning as intended.
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I go with the cheap option
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3 RepliesEdited by CatMan: 3/16/2017 4:04:39 AMWhat a cheap, op & broken thing to say[spoiler]lol[/spoiler]
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Rule number 1 is DON'T STAND IN THE FIRE. Now what the hell are you doing standing next to an explosive barrel? It's not cheap. Just don't be dumb. XD
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There are tons of actions out there that I deem "cheap," but I usually don't call the [i]player[/i] cheap unless they exclusively use those cheap moves. I.e. a player who only throws opponents off of ledges, shoots explosive barrels, camps around corners, etc.
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My definition for broken is this: when something doesn't work the way it should. I'll use jug shield from destiny (sorry). It is broken, not op. The shield was not meant to tank goldy shots (or it was and I'm a -blam-ing idiot). It does this because it is separate from the player, which is why it is broken. If for some reason it was intended to do this, it is not broken. For OP, I'll use an example from a game I actually like: For honor. OP would mean extremely better than the competition. Orochi is often called OP by a lot of people. However, he is not. Is he counterable? Yes. He would be OP if no other class could counter him (but my god is he annoying). Cheap would be as you said above. My example would be Nobushi R1 spam. It works, at the expense of the other players sanity.
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11 RepliesI agree with your definition of cheap. However I don't really see it used nor do I use it anymore. Overpowered (to me) means flexibility. And by that I mean if something can do a lot of things good. and the thing it's the worst at it's not even bad at. Niche things at least in my opinion are easier to balance and better overall. Broken is the term I see used most. To me broken simply means it doesn't work. I don't fee the word broken belongs in a balance discussion. I far prefer words like imbalanced. If overpowered was one tier and broken exceeds that tier I would simply state that that thing is in a tier of it's own. I prefer that simply because it could go either way. it could mean the power level of said thing is too high and everything else is fine. Or it could stand out as an example of what things SHOULD be like. But because the rest of the game isn't like it the item in question can be seen as overpowered or a problem. I think for honor is a relevant example most can get. I feel like the warden is in a tier of it's own. This could be because of the sheer number of options he has+ not being bad at really anything. Then we have the peace keeper. Who people swear up and down is overpowered. But from my perspective the only reason she shines is because the current meta is dominated by super defensive play. and she's one of the (if not the only) hero who can reliably open up defensive play.
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7 RepliesEdited by The First Aifos: 3/15/2017 9:46:05 PMYou also must take into consideration a few things. Pro vs. casual levels of play, and how "cheap" an "op" thing is to use. Let's talk about pro vs casual first off! I will use the example of the fighting game; BlazBlue Centralfiction. In particular; Nu13. [spoiler]Nu is your ranged character in BlazBlue. Most of her attacks are pretty short range, and her mid range ones are easy to see coming, but her advantage lies in the ability of her weapon--the Lux Sanctus: Murakumo--to summon ethereal swords to attack the opponent. s.D will shoot a sword forwards, and pressing D after ot hits will hit the opponent with another one. 6D will shoot a sword upwards, and you can follow up with another sword after, it it hits. 4D will summon a sword right behind the opponent, allowing a followup if it hits c.D will fire a sword upwards, with a followup if it hits 236D will summon spikes from the ground, covering about half the screen 214D summons a delayable sword that fires after a set period 236236D takes 50 Heat, and launches a barage of swords in front of her I could go on, but you get the point. Lots of projectiles. To a noob/casual player, you might think "how am I supposed to fight something like that!?", because you can't even get close, but on a "pro" tier list, Nu13 is at the very bottom. Like, what!? She's super cheap, all you need to do is push D and you win! Well.. You aren't wrong, on a casual level. She is kinda cheap, but only because most casual players don't know how to counter ranged attacks. Low effort, high payoff. But on a pro level, that's not going to get you anywhere. You'll go for your standard "D>D>4D>D>D>D>236D" combo, only to find that your opponent had blocked it all, stunned you during the startup of your 236D attack, and proceeded to destroy you, because that's all you knew how to do. In this case. We have a low effort, low payoff. So not cheap. Just pointless.[/spoiler] And THIS argument, my lovely group of For Honor players, is what you need to look at! You can whine about the Raider, or the Peacekeeper, or the Nobushi, but I can tell you just from looking at them, none of them are cheap, or op, at least not on the pro level. Now, which level is more important to balance? Hell if I know! :D Now, the "Cheap"/"Op" ratio. For this, we're going back to BlazBlue! Enter, the bane of all existence, and the incarnation of everything unholy in the world, and the person I [i]hate, [u]hate, [b]hate, HATE[/b][/i][/u], more than anyone; Nine the Phantom! [spoiler]Now, going by your definitions; Cheap; low effort, high payoff. Op; far too many strengths, with far too little weaknesses. You never gave a definition for "broken" so here's mine; when something's cheap [i]and[/i] op! But if something's op & cheap, then you must have things that are cheap but not op, and vice versa. Nine the Phantom has an attack for just abojt every situation imaginable. Anti air? Check! In your face? Check! Halfway across the screen? Check! All the way across the screen? Check! Projectile counter? Check! Combo interrupter? Check! Complete and utter annhilation of anybody wh dares to stand in her way on both the noob and pro level, with no hope of salvation or victory, and the ability to extinguish any small light, or sliver of hope you had, by sentencing tje entire world to damnation, cursing us all to eternal pain and misery, while she stands above us on a miuntain, looking down at us like the miserable little worms we are? Check! Nine is completely op! But from my experience, she's not cheap. Her attacks revolve around stocking certain elements, and unleashing combinations with D. As simple as it sounds, let's say you're dealing with Nu, who's pelting you with projectiles. Well, unless you have certain element's "stocked" (which you have to hit your opponent for), you can't throw out your anti projectile shield.[/spoiler] She has a few moves that are cheap, but overall, she's not. She is very op, to pros and noobs alike, but not cheap, which by (my) definition means she's not broken. Does this make her okay? Or should she be balanced a bit more? Well ultimately that's not up to me, but as much as I hate to admit it, this arguably makes Nine just fine where she is.. I still hate her though. A lot. Overall, the balancing game is tough. It's hard to make the calls. Balancing someone to the noobs, might make them useless to the pros, if someone's op, but hard to use, nerfing them makes a "high effort/low payoff" scenario, which isn't good. But even if someone makes a game where everything is perfectly balanced, on the pro level, the noob level, every character has about the same amount of effort/payoff to use, etc. people will still whine about how op, cheap, and broken things are, because if they aren't winning, the game is obviously the one at fault, right? :)
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1 Reply[quote]Cheap - Everything that kills me Broken - Everything that kills me OP - Everything that kills me[/quote] That's how most people feel
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1 ReplyPls don't nerf my red barrels
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1 ReplyIs trading with 2 people cheap of I use explosive scenery as a weapon
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Happy pi day
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1 ReplyTo skilled to care
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2 RepliesIt's "rifle" and not "riffle"
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3 RepliesEdited by Dr_Sorethumb: 3/14/2017 11:15:54 PMLet's use a shotgun, for example, to define my understanding of cheap, OP and broken. [b]Cheap:[/b] A spam shotgun with low range. Easy to get kills with, considered low skill, but still balanced against other shotguns. [b]OP:[/b] A spam shotgun that also has the best range and damage of all shotguns. If you use another shotgun against this you will lose, no matter what the engagement. Other weapon types can still best it, though outside its intended usage environment (e.g. snipers and assault rifles at long range). [b]Broken:[/b] A spam shotgun that will win any engagement, even where assault rifles, LMGs and even snipers make more sense. Even vehicle armour plating offers no protection against this gun.
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None of this is relevant when you only get killed by hackers anyways
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3 RepliesYou wanna know what's broken,op,and cheap? SMOKE BOMBS. Takes away HUD,limits movement and vision,and also does damage.
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I like when things are cheap or OP. Forces me to adapt which then gives me a new tactic to use.
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6 RepliesDo you play titanfall? If so, would you label the pre nerfed devotion as cheap, or OP? It was extremely easy to use and outperformed almost every other gun in most ranges.
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7 Replies[quote]Riffle[/quote]
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2 RepliesCheap is using environment mechanics, OP is choosing weapon based on mechanics, Broken is when the mechanics themselves are the issue...
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5 RepliesAnd then there's things like Kuzenbo in Smite who encompass (I feel that isn't the word I should be using, but I'm tired and don't feel like putting much thought into this) all three of those things...
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1 ReplyI consider something broken when it dominates the meta in such a way that the only reliable way to beat it is to use it. [spoiler]touch me bby[/spoiler]
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5 RepliesHere more ammo for thee. It is a long video though. Great post.
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4 RepliesOne sec, I'm bumping this until I find the video that supports what you're saying. I'll edit it once I find it