I'll just add that pvp and pve should be COMPLETELY SEPARATE in nerfs/buffs. And OP, you seem like a solid dude, i agree w ya. Merry christmas

Solution? Snipe the other guy first.

The sniper meta is here because Bungie have killed the mid-range special meta. Fusion Rifles need to be deadly at mid-range - they're not except exotics. Keep the fire cone very narrow and simply have it fizzle out at certain distances. There is charge time, a penalty for missing and they're quick to chew through ammo.

I agree sadly....I was so hyped for the shotgun nerf. However, when it came around I noticed myself getting melted by snipers and found myself unable to snipe anyone using a sniper..... I can't believe I'm saying this, but, SHOTGUN META COME BACK!

You are right, turn a corner in crucible and all the sniper glare looks like you just stepped out into highway traffic!

Bump. #SidearmLivesMatter

If it's 1000 Yard-Stare, it's possible. Shot through a wall? [i]Possible.[/i] Shot from the spawn? [i]Possible.[/i] Got killed by a skip round without even using the perk? Lag! [i]Possible.[/i] Quick scoped? HA! [i]Possible.[/i] Got a headshot only to have the dude teleport back off a cliff and still headshot you then walk away like nothiing happened? [i]Possible..[/i] Somebody randomly shot into the sky and got a headshot through a building? [b]Mandatory.[/b] Snipers are pretty overused right now, but the biggest problem is 1000 Yard-Stare, remove the high aim assist (It does have way to much aim assist, and it's noticeable) and you'd probally see more shotgun users again, which is fine but then you'd also see more people resort to that bullshit Conspiracy Theory-D that's -blam!-ing given out to everyone.

100000% yes, id rather go toe to toe with a fellow shotgun then stare at a box for 30 seconds, peak out trying to get the snipe without getting sniped, and then stepping back behind said box and repeat until someone dies

Bump

I think it's about equally as bad. I've used both since beta and snipers are not some super high skill weapon. Most people just camp aiming at head level and hope for someone to turn a corner.

i don´t wanna go into discussion about who are more skilled. But use a shotgun have a high risk and your reward when you use it is a great damage and OHKO often. However in this patch with the shotguns nerf (again) finally dont have any sense seek the close range because your skill won't be rewarded. So, you must use a sniper, this no means that you dont need skill, just, you will be more successful using a sniper Remember,shotguns comes from a previous nerfs. Less range, less ammo, less damage, shot package perk eliminated... whats next? banned players because they use shotguns? and... if maybe just exist good players with shotguns and it was not necessary punish them

Well said sir!

I agree with this portion of your post. I was actually a Sniper Main in the start of Destiny (believe it or not). But I couldn't stand the calm, chilled back playstyle of aiming down sights half way across the map to take off someones head. So when I picked up a Shotgun I just enjoyed that feeling more. I enjoyed being placed into the heat of the moment, where if I die it will either put my team at risk, or give us a big leap towards winning (in ToO of course). Whenever I was using a Sniper (even now) I find myself -or the enemy- in the most cheekiest of head glitches or positioned around a corner with his/her sights aimed down already in the area that are head should be in to just pull the trigger and let loose. I'm not going to see that it is cheap and for "cowards" or "pussies" because it is a legitimate strat that is, can, and will be, used. Want to counter a Sniper? That's "simple" in my mind. Don't peak out around corners if you know they are there, do not attempt to challenge them long range, shoot them from their blind spots, or close in the gap between the two of you quickly (without putting your body in harms way of there scope). And yes, this is "easier said then done", but it really isn't that hard not to go around the corner to see if they are still there because 9/10x they are still going to be there like the numerous other times you've decided to check and they remained in that position waiting for you to peak. With a Shotgun people "complained" about not being able to "counter" it and resulted in everyone pulling out a shotgun as "counter" to it when it was really just a simple "roadblock" placed that is easily avoidable with a more "experienced" rusher. What I found was the easiest way to kill off someone like myself was to bait them towards me (or another one of my teammates) and while they are occupied with me actually switch to my primary (oh wow guys, look, I took out my primary!) and start giving them hell. That throws off the aim (be it mattered or not) for my teammate to either get off a melee or a grenade to finish them off or potentially just kill them off like that myself without any casualties. And yes, this is "easier said than done", but it wasn't the hardest thing in the world if instead of staying in your current position to challenge the rusher or attempt to hide, and you pulled backwards to bait them towards you, the kill was "easier" to obtain on them. [The truth is that snipers are so much safer to use. You can distance yourself where you cant be killed fast by the majority of meta weapons, you can pop in and out of cover and still get kills. Even if you miss, youre safe, the same cant be said about shotguns though. With shotguns, you have to put yourself at risk, either by pushing past the half way mark on the map, going into the other teams spawn, etc. You need to be agile and use your character's mobility. Its not easy to do. Sure, you can get one easy kill. But most of the time you end up trading, either with the guy you kill or you die by his teammate because you put yourself at risk. And in trials, trades are bad for the shotgun user, because they have to advance to get their close range shotgun kill, so the shotguns dead orb will usually be un-revivable whereas the orb that was killed by the shotgun will usually be on his teams own side, so it is usually revivable. With snipers, you can get one kill and safely walk away. And the fact that shotguns and fusion rifles aren't as good as they used to be, everyone is now sniping, and playing almost risk free. Pvp has mostly come down to a game of pop-in pop-out where whoever gets the first snipe has the advantage. The only risk you put yourself in is getting sniped by someone else. Playing that safe should not be so rewarding.] <~ Agreeing portion.

I prim a yard stare and second a tlw. (I also throw nades constantly) if you don't like it, gtfo. It's crucible (competitive multiplayer as bungie describes it). If you are not good not playing the meta. Play the god damn meta. (Btw shotguns should go back to the way they were. Shotguns were never the problem. The maps are)

Respectfully disagree, sniping takes a boat ton more skill than a shotgunner does, I used shotguns back in the day and I hate them, they are so easy to use, incredibly user friendly and it forced SO many players into this belief that they never need another weapon, meaning they lost out on so many other ways of playing the game. Sure I agree that everyone has their own playstyle which is fair enough, never going to debate that, I have seen players that would rather run halfway across the map to someone they see to shotgun them in one hit instead of using a primary. Personally the debate between shotguns and snipers can be solved pretty easily, take special ammo away, the fact that it can be used through an entire game is ridiculous, it negate the use of a primary, primaries at the moment are not in too bad of a place, most primaries can go toe to toe with one another, there are obvious exceptions but most of the time they can hold their own. However with snipers and shotguns being extremely effective one hit kill weapons it just forces everyone into them because its an easier choice. Unfortunately due to how good both weapon types are people have the belief forced upon them that a primary is useless, how wrong they are but here's the thing, they wouldn't know because of how easy a special is to use, sure sniping takes a lot of skill, you actually have to aim the gun, shotguns you need to go for an effective flank for it to be effective. Personally special ammo is too plentiful in pvp and thats the problem with it at the moment, they have nerfed shotguns into the floor, which personally I am happy with, but its not just me, there are people out there who love to use a shotgun which is fair enough, however Bungie did not think two feet in front of their face with map design and weapon meta, shotguns and hand cannons work like gods in this game due to the maps, so they can nerf guns all they want, they won't ever be where they are balanced. Everyone is suffering because of it, shotguns are better, no sniping takes skill, this meta is boring, blah blah blah, argue all you want amongst yourselves, its no one's fault but Bungie's. They can't fix pvp because the maps are one of the big problems, especially TTK maps, wow they are awful. Thats my opinion, your entitled to your own, ill listen and respect it.

Nothing wrong with snipers.....it's just that alot of people are using them....what they need to fix is the stagger on snipers vs the Mida or a fast fire rate pulse or scout.....Try sniping with a constant jerk on your scope....Almost impossible

i blame the streamers making sniper and last word the only thing to do in this game now. if you watch any top pvp streams 1000-3000 viewers all snipers where the shot gun streamers sit around 200-500 viewers. people enjoy watching quick scope more than shotty to the body. but yes snipers are less risky than shot guns because snipers are usually across the map from their opponents and do not have to worry about being shot at other than other snipers.

I have been sniping pradeyths revenge was first found

I'm the kind of player who rushes snipers and evades shotgunners as a warlock with an autorifle and fusionrifle. It can be annoying to get killed with a shotgun, but that's my fault for making the challenge available for shotgunners. Blinking is made for escaping, in my opinion and a medium charge fusion with target acquisition and stability can out match any shotgun. Bait the snipers. That may be much harder but its simple if you know the general sniping ability vs map layout. you shadestep hunters and ESPECIALLY Twilight Garrison Titans should have a crutch in on this. Am I right?

This is why I wrote a post about high caliber rounds needing increased effect. I have more snipe kills than shotgun kills in the crucible, and I can admit that sniping has got out of hand. But people would rather comment on selfie threads, how to talk to girls, and AMA.

I dont play enough crucible to care(only really venture dailys for marks), but know what is fun to do with a high impact sniper? Weapons of light. One hit Kill your pinky toe for days.

What's wrong with using your primary.