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Edited by Art Vandelay:
12/21/2015 4:45:31 PM
392
The Sniper meta is worse than the Shotgun meta
Coming from a guy thats been using high impact snipers since the LDR 5001.
The main argument for "what takes more skill: snipers vs shotguns" is that snipers are harder to use because you have to land headshots. I just don't see it like that though.
The truth is that snipers are so much safer to use. You can distance yourself where you cant be killed fast by the majority of meta weapons, you can pop in and out of cover and still get kills. Even if you miss, youre safe, the same cant be said about shotguns though.
With shotguns, you have to put yourself at risk, either by pushing past the half way mark on the map, going into the other teams spawn, etc. You need to be agile and use your character's mobility. Its not easy to do. Sure, you can get one easy kill. But most of the time you end up trading, either with the guy you kill or you die by his teammate because you put yourself at risk. And in trials, trades are bad for the shotgun user, because they have to advance to get their close range shotgun kill, so the shotguns dead orb will usually be un-revivable whereas the orb that was killed by the shotgun will usually be on his teams own side, so it is usually revivable.
With snipers, you can get one kill and safely walk away. And the fact that shotguns and fusion rifles aren't as good as they used to be, everyone is now sniping, and playing almost risk free. Pvp has mostly come down to a game of pop-in pop-out where whoever gets the first snipe has the advantage. The only risk you put yourself in is getting sniped by someone else. Playing that safe should not be so rewarding.
This has nothing to do with high aim assist. As a sniper main I know nothing has changed about snipers since vanilla when it comes to aim assist. Im not "one of those guys." I genuinely believe the reason people have gotten so good at sniping recently is that [i]everyone[/i] uses them now and we've gotten so much practice with them. Nothing to do with aim assist.
All Im saying is shotguns and fusion rifles, and even sidearms need to be buffed so they get more usage. I actually liked the HoW meta better because shotguns were extremely good but still had that risk factor to them. They could still be stopped dead in their tracks or could be traded with. Nowadays its almost unsafe to walk around any corner because there is already a sniper aimed down it at head level. I find myself hitting down on the dpad to see around the corner in third person every time I get to a corner. Its not a good meta at all. Bring back shotguns and fusion rifles!
Again, this is coming from a sniper main.
Tl;dr
Shotguns take a ton of awareness and use of your character's mobility and you have to put yourself at risk for every kill, but snipers are almost risk free to use. Shotguns didnt deserve to be nerfed and should be buffed along with fusions and sidearms to give them more usage.
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They need to limit the amount of special ammo available in matches. Snipers, shotguns and sidearms are fine; fusion rifles may need a small stability boost. Other than that, all the special weapons are more or less balanced. There's just an abundance in special ammo.
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Unfortunately this is true. It's the simple fact that shotguns are more fun. Now you load up PVP and people are using a sniper as their primary and a campfire with marshmallows as their secondary. Regular PVP is basically a snipers only playlist.
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I agree that shotguns and fusions should be brought back to 2.0 level, and sidearms buffed but this is definitely not as bad as the shotgun meta. Crucible then was genuinely infuriating but getting head shorted by a sniper has so much more dignity than catching a ten foot body shot and dying to Felwinters lie.
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4 Replies"The associated risk with a shotgun is that they aren't safe outside of their optimal range" You know what else isn't safe outside of their optimal range? EVERYTHING. If anything, shotguns are even safer than snipers, because you will never be outshot by a pulse or scout, or anything whilst at a shotguns optimal range, whereas a sniper can be flinched and killed off at their optimal range by most primaries in the current meta, and in their optimal range snipers don't grant guaranteed kills like shotguns do. It's much harder to land a sniper headshot at optimal range than it is to blindly spray a shot at someones body from point blank. Secondly, it is much much easier to close distance on a player than it is to create distance. Because destiny has movement abilities like sprint, blink, and titan skating you cannot backtrack as fast as someone can move towards you. Creating space is important in maintaining optimal positioning for a sniper, which is much harder to do than closing a distance between players. What about the fact that destiny's radar gives you all of the awareness that you need for close quarters engagements, so there is nearly 0 skill in knowing where players that are close to you are. Don't be ridiculous asking for shotguns to be buffed. A good player can still do much better with a shotgun than he can with a sniper due to how much easier they are to use. Their kill potential per game is SOOO much higher than that of a sniper, you get more ammo, and it is easier to be more efficient with said ammo, plus you are encouraged to be aggressive, netting you significantly more kills than a sniper in the same period of time for a fraction of the skill/effort. If you ask any of the top tier players, I'm talking the top couple hundred in the world, at least 95% would agree that sniping is still harder than shotgunning.
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Considering half the maps in this game are confined spaces.....
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5 RepliesShotguns are for corner camping scrubs who play like complete tools. -blam!- that, and screw anyone that thinks they should be buffed. Also you are probably one of those dudes still using your stupid ass LDR, try something new. Furthermore, saying sniper rifles have no risk is stupid as hell, you can't see anything in your peripherals. Seriously I vote they remove conspiracy theory-d from the game. Just straight up delete it. I would be the happiest dude in the world, and I would laugh laugh laugh at all the scrubs who rely on it.
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I love running with two trysweatinghardscopes. Makes running around with shotty that more fun #invective
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THIS IS SO GOOD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I HOPE EVERYONE EVER SEES THIS.
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To be an exceelent sniper ( which is probably about .05% of "snipers") takes more skill. For the other 99.95%, shottys take morr skill then i could ever put into words
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5 Replies#AggressiveNLBAndSidearmComboMasterRace
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The funny thing about all this is that this conversation will never end. True balance will never be achieved in a game that offers unique stats and perks for each weapon. It's impossible. There are too many variables to consider like map locations, player movement, perks affecting stats, weapon specific stats, lag, etc. That's why one weapon type always comes out on top after each balance patch. First it was auto rifles, then fusion rifles, then hand cannons, then pulse rifles, now scouts and snipers. Personally I believe this is all a perception thing. Take this current sniper debate; year one had some pretty power crucible snipers that were as popular as the 1000 Yard Stare like Her Benevolence and The LDR, but because it suits your argument you choose to single out the 1000 yard stare. This is also a salty thing. Be honest, you came to the forum to make this post because you got destroyed by the 1000 yard stare or the Defiance of Yasmin, and since it couldn't possibly be your fault you have to find something to blame.
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3 RepliesEdited by Mute 000: 12/22/2015 7:32:05 AMThis guy right here. He gets it and it's pretty simple to understand. The 2.0/2.0.1 patches were FINE. Now everything is all F'd up again and everyone is back to using the same ol 2-3 weapons. Mida, Sniper rifles (1k stare mostly), Conspiracy Theory/Party Crasher and TLW. ::slow clap for J.W.:: ::cries for his Chaperone:: And yeah, the "skill" argument many snipers try to make is always laughable. 90% of the players in PVP right now are maining a sniper rifle because they're "skilled"... yeah, ok.. lol. crutchity crutch crutch crutch.
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1 ReplyUntill the "meta" isn't only to use a select few weapons then it'll still suck
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But shotguns are still good, snipers are relatively easy to deal with
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1 ReplyNaturally, people will always move to the best or easiest thing to use. Because shotguns were so good, nobody really saw the potential of snipers. Now that shotguns aren't as good, snipers have their time to shine. There isn't really an issue with snipers in my view. They are perfectly balanced. Aim assist isn't too high, and they aren't one shot body shots anymore. If snipers and shotguns get nerfed, then the fusion rifles and sidearm will be complained about next. It is a never-ending cycle. This game is basically impossible to balance with the many types of weapons and archetypes within them.
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3 RepliesI also hate the old strategy of body shotting a guy and then finishing him off with a primary like just really
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1 ReplyI miss the era of the Shotguns. It's almost as if choosing a type of shotgun actually meant something. I thought the whole point of high impact/range shotguns were to be able to one shot enemies at longer ranges. I thought high fire rate shotguns were designed to dumptruck damage into bosses and arcblades. I thought wrong.
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I agree with this. Iron Banner is when everyone pulls out the snipers and things get painful. I still stick to shotguns. Always have loved them
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2 RepliesMeh I agree and disagree. There has never been a shotgun meta. Every time I went flawless year one it was with a sniper, same with my teammates.. 20+ flawless runs. Shotguns and snipers were more on par previously. If anything I would say the shotgun / sniper meta was better than the current.
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2 RepliesIts just annoying when I shoot a guy w/ my primary ( reflection sum, bad juju, red death ) and the guy can get off a shot and kill me. Snipers are meant for long range and should stay at long range. I would like bungie to remove short and medium range scopes and remove snapshot from snipers then add in a shit ton of flinch. In a way this would require more people to use there primaries when running the map. This might also allow a way for fusion rifles to find a way back into the game.
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People always complain about weapons. What is annoying is getting sniped at shotgun range, or have a shot gun charging down at you. You keep shooting with your handcannon or sidearm and he kills you. It's never gonna be perfect. I just fight fire with fire....
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In my opinion, complaining about weapons is just stupid. Shotguns are a bit annoying in the crucible, I've recently attempted putting mine down and tried sniping. But both weapons have scumbags behind them, the kids who body shot you then switch to (insert primary) are the same people going around calling anyone with a shotgun horrible. Shotguns aren't that bad in my opinion but if some hunter or warlock goes around blinking their life away then sure cry all you want. I guess what I'm trying to say this whole argument over meta could apply to any weapon.
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I find it fun to have sniping wars with the other team. It's enjoyable to me at least. But then again, I also enjoyed the thorn meta, so my opinion shouldn't be valid
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4 RepliesEdited by ruppettypuppetty: 12/23/2015 8:05:17 PMShotgun users are worse for camping imo. I've never seen a shotgun user bait someone into a close quarter one on one. Seen loads of sniper users lure a single player into a 1v1 though. Here's why....Shotgun user's are still expecting to just win the close quarter battles hands down. The difference is, I accept if they've got that close to me, there's not much I can do. However, there's plenty they can do to outsmart/flank/push/force me into a less beneficial situation that favours their gameplay. They want to just fly around in the open aimlessly? Yeah they're gonna lose most of the time, but flank take short turns and routes that don't keep you exposed along one sightlines for longer than 2/3 seconds and you'll quickly close in on someone, especially if you're with a good team in terms of communication. In all honesty though, and were all guilty of it from time to time, In my experience subconscious laziness plays a much bigger part of peoples gameplay than they'd care to admit lol
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Signed
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Noobs just run directly at you with a shotgun and get lucky because well range
