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Edited by FuzzyWhiteLion: 8/28/2014 6:41:04 PM
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Your quoted "great" article was pretty bad. All credibility was lost with this article when the author argued that raids weren't for players who can't find 5 other friends to play with and then equates that to "I want to be the world’s top-ranked Call of Duty player, and I can’t. We all have our different crosses to bear." Determining that raids are or aren't for someone based on the number of friends online at that particular time is inconsistent and has nothing to do with skill level, though the author seems to think it does. Raids are an access issue, meeting a requirement like carpool lanes (must have 2 or 3 in the car to use this lane), except in this scenario you can still get to your destination without taking the carpool lane. Even Bungie has said that Raids on normal difficulty are not a thumbskill challenge but rather investment (time) and cooperative challenge. Saying that raids aren't for the following people is a copout: 1) Clans that only have 5 people on because the 6th wasn't available (network issues, life, etc.) 2) Clans with 10 people on - 4 of which can't play the raid. 3) Players with max friend lists but no one is into Destiny or is on at the same time 4) Top skilled players who have always focused on pve and never had a requirement to have friends to play these modes. That does not prevent them from building out their friends lists or joining a clan, but see previous points that would still impact them. Putting up an access barrier that requires you to be level 20 is one thing because it is finite and measurable, but leaving access up to random uncontrollable scenarios only reflects poorly on the design and decisions and not on the abilities, planning, and coordination set out by players. I have yet to hear a good argument as to why matchmaking should not be included. Nerfing? This is purely speculative and Bungie has already put controls in to prevent this - they introduced tier level difficulty. Regardless of what is done, there will be people complaining about how hard it is, because all of those "randoms" are going to join a random clan just so they can play the raid. They aren't going to invest in being friends with the clan; it is only to get access. Hard to achieve? Beating the raid should be hard to achieve, not accessing it. If the most difficult part about raids is accessing the content then raids are set for failure. Teamwork is required? Randoms playing in a clan won't be much different, and unless the fireteam members are consistent you will always have randoms playing with each other. Puzzle for the math guru's, how many different combination of players can you have when making a team of 6 out of 75? I would actually argue that Matchmaking will improve teamwork and success rates for those who have the potential to beat the raid. This is because they will have more opportunities to play the raid and learn the encounters even if they know that there won't be a chance for them to finish it or get any good gear on that particular run. Lastly, matchmaking does not prevent clans or friends from running Raids the same way as Bungie has already described so for people who do not want matchmaking, you actually wouldn't know the difference!
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  • Edited by OutHouse: 8/28/2014 6:40:39 PM
    This is honestly the best pro match making arguement i have heard yet. 10/10. When i get to a comp ill give u a worthy response. But very well written with solid [i]valid[/i] points even if i disagree overall. Via phone. One giant issue i have is this. When u stop after 4-6 hours, and group break up at a Checkpoint. How do u restart the raid? U cant continue a raid without the original party u all began with. U certainly cant add new ppl to continue. That takes away from the experience.

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  • The Checkpoint question is valid and was not something I had considered, but I agree that you should not be able to continue without the same group. I'm for hard content and not for free passes. I would consider it cheating the system if a group played 75% of the raid only to have someone new come in for the last 25% and win the prize - much like line hopping. My natural reaction is tough - if you can't beat the raid and can't get the same group together then too bad. It will happen to clans and organized groups as well. Realistically though, people will see "checkpoint" and assume that they can continue from there no-strings-attached. I would predict that this would result in requests to change how checkpoints function essentially nerfing them. I'm against nerfs of any kind and would recommend one of the following: smart matchmaking that can match up only players who have reached a particular checkpoint that has not yet expired, or a warning when reaching the checkpoint that clearly states that the same team must be present to continue.

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  • [quote]The Checkpoint question is valid and was not something I had considered, but I agree that you should not be able to continue without the same group. I'm for hard content and not for free passes. I would consider it cheating the system if a group played 75% of the raid only to have someone new come in for the last 25% and win the prize - much like line hopping. My natural reaction is tough - if you can't beat the raid and can't get the same group together then too bad. It will happen to clans and organized groups as well. Realistically though, people will see "checkpoint" and assume that they can continue from there no-strings-attached. I would predict that this would result in requests to change how checkpoints function essentially nerfing them. I'm against nerfs of any kind and would recommend one of the following: smart matchmaking that can match up only players who have reached a particular checkpoint that has not yet expired, or a warning when reaching the checkpoint that clearly states that the same team must be present to continue.[/quote] I know i havent gotten back to u properly yet, but after te recent update. Has you opinion changed ?

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  • I enjoyed the update. The "metaphorical key" part is a good argument especially if this is needed just to get inside, but I still wouldn't toss out MM. MM can still have good results especially in scenarios when you have say 2 groups of three being paired up - these are not necessarily randoms who are going to spoil the whole thing. There are idealists out there who think no MM is the best but don't see that they will be left out in the cold more than once. Likewise, I recognize that there are pitfalls with having MM like Leeroy Jenkins who won't be able to coordinate with the rest of the team just to stand on spot X and push the shiny red button before the ground drops out from under you.

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