Value is subjective when several weapons are just trash to begin with and others might have really good rolls, but their stat distributions are complete garbage. And that's not accounting for the fact stats will have different values between console/ controller compared to PC/ mnk. How much range is needed on a weapon like Immortal for it to be considered good in pvp, then consider to get that range, the player won't need to tank their stability low enough that I personally wouldn't use it on controller since having like 70 stability on an SMG is like having 40 or less on an AR with a similar ROF. I've said before that if crafting really did "remove the satisfaction of obtaining a random weapon" (I'd need to check if that's actually a Bungie quote or just Tom Christie doing his thing), that EVERY weapon would need to have value. Now this 5 tier enhancement system is sort of solving that, depending on how easy it is to get those higher tiers for regular weapons like Stars in Shadow or comp weapons like Solemn Remembrance due to the extra perks and everything being enhancable, but it doesn't solve the issue of some weapons simply being garbage compared to other alternatives. One example comparing Blood Fued or Rapacious Hunger to Unending Tempest. Tempest having I think 50 or so AA compared to Hunger's 28 and Fued's 32, and consistently having more range and stability with better sights, what do the others bring to the table? A faster ttk or more handling means nothing if the user can't hit their shots or is too far to do anything. On another note regarding crafting killing loot value, I think the bigger killer is how stingy Bungie can be with their rewards. If our chances of getting a T5 weapon even during a good full run in a Mythic activity is still RNG, that would kill the incentive, and by extension, the value. I don't want to play in Adept comp for example or do the best in the match if I'd be no more likely to get my T5 Solemn Remembrance than if I just threw it. I wouldn't want to do a fast flawless run in a Mythic activity, especially when I'd be capped 40 below everything, if my chances of getting a T5 weapon aren't guaranteed like they should be since Mythic is basically a harder replacement for GMs and T5s are basically better replacements for adept weapons. If my chances of getting a T5 weapon are no better than getting an adept in COB/ Nether, the ONLY saving grace is that the T5 weapons are guaranteed extra perks, but that's it. As for how every weapon would need to have value? The only options I can think of are: * All weapons within their weapon types if not exclusively their archetypes need to have comparable stats or reasonable trade offs in performance. I'd gladly trade 5 AA on Judgment for example for 5-10 range and stability. They all would also need at least 1-2 perks in each column for really good PvE and PVP builds. However, some like Rose are basically exclusively pvp weapons, but if it ever got a perk refresh that added Firefly and Magnificent Howl, I'd grind that for PvE in a heartbeat if not for how good it might be, then how fun it would be. Magnificent Howl or probably any damage perk would be good enough for me so long as I can get comparable range and stability to my best roll (79 range 88 stability). * If not every weapon should be comparable or have the "right" perks, then scrapping them should eventually allow us to edit a copy we're choosing to keep. My god roll Redrix I'd just add Desperado on to make it more fun to use, and if possible, change the masterwork to range, then I'd have the best PVP roll combined with a fun PvE roll. Players need a reliable way to obtain the gear they want, or all the weapons need to have some kind of value beyond just materials.

You’re getting pretty granular here when my point was more a general principal. I agree all weapons need to have SOMETHING going for them that is not always directly related to performance. It could be unique perk combos or aesthetics or experience (I have a Showrunner SMG I like a lot mainly just for its sound and visual experience while playing with it so hence more valuable for me). In general though, crafting weapons destroys some aspects of replay ability because the rewards themselves lose value outside of mats. Bungie is going to have to walk a fine line (like any other looter game) where REGULAR play feels rewarding but no life grinding doesn’t feel necessary for things like Tier 5 weapons.

There is no such thing as loot value. Its pixels.

I mean it’s just a video game so it’s only value to the customer is ENTERTAINMENT… your take is just reductionist. This isn’t discounting things like content creators and streamers that use the game for income… but I would argue their relationship to the game is not the intent of the devs (and why I think their feedback can be skewed in a unhealthy way for the game but that is another discussion). Part of that entertainment is the perceived value of one piece of loot to another… stats, perks, etc and not whether another person has that loot except in the case of something like endgame activities. I’m not saying there aren’t some people that take a disturbingly elitist position on this topic. My point is crafting guts the economy of the game and it’s rewards/progression system… which is part of the entertainment of the game. I enjoy the game play of Destiny, but if I could craft every weapon immediately (or with little investment) then any reward in whatever activity I’m playing would have to be completely intrinsic (ie I want to master this play style, solve this secret, defeat this challenge, GIT GUD, etc)… and that is a recipe for a dead game. That is the exact problem vanilla D2 had. It is already impossible for Bungie to create enough story/activity/lore/content to satiate the locusts of the Destiny “community”. Crafting just exacerbates that problem 10 fold.

What you’re trying to do is make yourself feel better about putting a bunch of time into a game for gear. It’s laughable and childlike, but you do you.

If you don’t want to grind go play candy crush

If you want to feel special seek it from your parents. Don’t look for validation in a game.