Leveling is a part of RPGS.
The problem is that this game’s progression system is a broken travesty.
In well-designed games, you can level up playing any part of the game. Progression is just a function of time invested. End-game rewards are the top tier of loot in terms of power, not chasing a number or chasing currency.
The Milestone and Pinnacle system are a broken holdover from D2 Y1 when the game launched with a broken loot system (fixed weapon rolls and cosmetic armor). So ther was no reason to play any activity once you had one of every kind of weapon or armor piece.
So Bungie faced the problem of how to you get people to grind a loot game with no loot?
[i]You play hide and seek with progression.[/i]
So they broke the relationship between player time investment and rate of progression. You all limit which activities and end-game relevant as far as progression.
Result?
You confine the player to an ever-shrinking circle of activities that can progress his character or gear. The RNG nature of the system turn that circle of activity into a slot machine where you gamble your time in hope that the game spits out something useful. If it doesn’t? The game has effectively stolen your time.
Add to that a Champion system that severely restricts what weapons you can use and a Seasonal system that pushes people towards specific builds?
You have rigid metas that quickly go stale, and a highly repetitive/poorly-rewarding play loop that people are growing tired of.
Especially if they play the most “difficult” content.
Progression simply needs to be overhauled instead of an endless series of bandages slapped on it.
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Wow, this is such a solid response. Thank you! I 100% agree with your points here. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
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Edited by A R G O: 1/3/2023 6:29:47 PMSo, what would an overhauled progression system look like in your opinion?.
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Like the Smart Loot system we had in D1, or the loot system in The Division 2. In both systems, you were free to play whatever part of the game you wanted in terms of leveling up. You were incentivized to play more difficult content by loot. The harder the content the more loot you got, and the better it’s quality in terms of tier and stats. Especially in The Division 2. So if you were grinding for a particular item, you were likely to get it faster, or min-max quicker by playing harder content. But you were free to play less difficult content, but it would take you longer because the loot drops were of lesser quantity and quality. The problem is that Bungie has never had the development bandwidth to make enough loot to structure the game this way.
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"Not enough loot in the game" The thought keeps running my head. and so I was wondering: - Would sunsetting and then regrinding the same loot but with updated rolls loop, help with that? - Or is it not enough ''newly'' created weapons and armour that is the problem. - Both? - Finally I think they need to update the frequency of drops in general, across the entire game before they can truly begin with any of that really. Crafting right now is more of a band aid to keep old raids relivent and a system that helps secure your seasonal contents money spent, when it leaves at the end of a year. I look at my Vault an realise I that I do not own any legendary weapons that came from the seasons in the beyond Light era ...
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1. If the perk pools were new? Yes. 2. Both. 3. So many of this game’s remaining issues find their roots in Bungie’s reluctance to be generous with rewards because they can’t keep the game adequately supplied with loot.
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Thank you. What has been surprisingly great is Bungies ability to create a fresh batch of new perks each season and who knows how many with lightfall. Ikelos Shotgun with cascade point is basically a legend forth horseman lol.
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I’ve been impressed by the smg with Volt Shot.
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Cool... Bungie seems intent on not giving me that.
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I agree. Devil’s Advocate Mode: I do recall a time when progression leaned more towards “do whatever activities you want”, not fully, but more. Then people just ran the fastest activities to level as quickly as possible, which inevitably brought them to complain about how meaningless power is 🙂. I’m no expert, but it seems to me the real challenge is making power mean something in each activities power tier…the balance of being powerful in this game is too linear in most places and dips way too far just to keep build-crafting relevant.
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That’s a content design problem. One Bungie is still struggling to solve. Not a progression system problem. Frankly, the Milestone and Pinnacle systems were created to wallpaper over the vanilla game’s severe design flaws as a loot game. [i]Question: How do you make your 10th Better Devils interesting? Answer: You can’t.[/i] So you force people to get that 10th one in order to progress in the game.
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Yes. I agree, I think. I’m just saying that problem makes power less relevant, which makes progression less relevant…imho.