Thanks for your honesty. When SBMM was around I used to dip into PVP quite a bit, trying and getting pinnacle weapons (the hard way). Not anymore... I'm lucky to get 10 kills. At the end of the day we play games for enjoymnent. I don't enjoy getting stomped so often, so I no longer get into PVP. Shame because i used to enjoy doing so.

Finally, someone with sense and experience has spoke with logic. My die hard pvp friends with 50+ flawless and 5+ glory resets per season since d2 started have left due to exact same reasons that u have mentioned. So have all the new players I have seen since season 10. No one sticks around for pvp as it is too unbalanced like u say. Lack of SBMM hurts both ends of spectrum. Let me give you another interesting stat. Most new players are the ones who just started playing in general. People who got a console or pc and started gaming. When they fire up pvp in destiny and don't enjoy it, they switch to another game. If they enjoy pvp in some other battle royale game, they are lost. That's a bad thing for player population. Also remember, this is bad in general becuae as a new light, pvp is one of the activities where light level means nothing (except 2 modes) so it's a good playground. I am so glad you explained this from the perspective of a top tier player. Most just quit and play something else. Good job!

As usual- PvP regulars want cbmm because they love to stomp. That’s it. That’s the only reason you would want CBmm. They don’t want to get better. They don’t want to get gud. They just want that stomp and unfair advantage against newbs and casuals. SBMM is the only way to run PvP in a game like Destiny- where most don’t even want to play it. What’s hilarious is that now that the casuals and newbs are gone, all that’s left are the regulars- and you know what? They cheat lol How many lighthouse passages have zero wins this week - still the majority? That’s what I thought…

[quote]I've made this post before but after a few months I wanted to make it again just to reaffirm my stance and to get people talking about this topic. A lot of you on the forum know me as ben, I play on pc and I pretty much only play PvP. I spend pretty much all of my time in rumble - I am #1 in rumble on pc according to guardian.gg and #5 across all platforms according to destinytracker. If you want to look at my stats in detail you can look up "6 god ben" on the website of your choice, it will be my steam name for a while and I should be the only one with it. After 4000 games of rumble, most of which have been in the past year or two, it has become abundantly clear to me that purely connection-based matchmaking is not good for destiny's PvP. From what I can tell from playing a lot and from spending a lot of time on here reading what people have to say, the current algorithm that is present in most crucible playlists does a very good job at pushing casual/average players away from the game. As an example, please look at the PGCR from a rumble game I played today: https://guardian.gg/2/pgcr/8966356596 . This is one of the most flagrantly unfair lobbies I have been in in a very long time. I joined this game down 9 and won the game in 3 minutes - these players were very clearly brand new to the game and were not even trying to shoot back; Im talking blue weapons, brand new characters. As you can see from their elo ratings, this lobby had 2 bronze, 3 iron, 1 gold, and 1 DIAMOND player. I mean honestly what are people like this supposed to do? Im willing to bet everyone in this lobby had less than 300 hours on the game compared to me with 2000 on steam alone. When lobbies like this happen, people stop wanting to play. They are left with the notion that PvP is a place for tryhards, and that casuals or new players like them do not belong. I don't care how good you are at the game, how much of an ego you have, how much you enjoy shitstomping people who don't shoot back at you - this is unhealthy for the game, period. You can say the game caters to casuals and I agree that it does; the sandbox has a lot of very forgiving and easy to use weapons and abilities that definitely cater to the low skilled player. But this doesn't matter because they still don't stand a chance against someone who has been playing way longer than them and who is way better. And the thing is, I don't even think this matchmaking is beneficial to the skilled player's experience either. I understand the appeal of pubstomping, don't get me wrong, but is it REALLY worth jeopardizing the casual experience so that you can absolutely stomp every lobby without even trying? Does it not get old? Because I think it gets old. Rumble is a time passer for me, but it is not engaging or intense or demanding whatsoever. I'm playing against people who can barely even fight back, it's not satisfying to me at all. I don't feel like I'm getting better or gaining anything from playing. The rumble games that I enjoy the most are lobbies with 1 or 2 other good players, on a small map where you can't run away from eachother and can only win by proving that you are better in 1v1 scenarios and better at controlling the map. Sometimes I'll even get a lobby full of skilled players, and while it is chaotic it certainly is fun and it is extremely satisfying coming out on top. But this rarely, rarely happens. I win just about every single game, this week my record is 119 wins and 3 losses, and Id say maybe one out of every ten games is one where I actually have to try? And even when I "have to try" it still doesn't mean putting a gun to my own head, most of the time it just means putting on better weapons and maybe I will focus up a little bit. Very, very rarely do I really have to fully go for it and go full focus in order to win a game. Winning games is rarely satisfying, it is just normal and the satisfying games are ones against good players. There is nothing satisfying to me about demolishing new players, and I wish people of my skill level felt the same because your pubstomping is not worth the death of the game because everyone gets pushed away. It is especially problematic when you consider the fact that, for the casual player, there is no where they can go in the crucible director to escape this unfair experience. Every single playlist is extremely CBMM heavy. Comp may be somewhat based on glory but there have been so many seasons of comp that a glory rating is meaningless. My glory is like 1500 because I havent touched comp this season due to all the cheaters, but I have been 5500 6 times. I don't deserve to be matched against people who are genuinely hard stuck at fabled. Elimination is also somewhat skilled based but if I was new to destiny the last thing I would want to do is play elimination, it is incredibly unengaging and you do not get enough gun fights to really improve. You can make the argument that we have seen what destiny was like with skill based matchmaking being so intense that lobbies were way too laggy and I am not going to act like I forgot. I will never, never forget scrolling through my IP geolocator in a quickplay game back in forsaken and seeing that 9/12 players in the lobby were from east Asia. But I do not remember this happening often, it's not like I look back and think "oh yeah, I always matched laggy players in forsaken". Like, not really. Barely any more than I do now. Putting skill based back into the algorithm and making the connection based matchmaking a little less intense is definitely risky with destiny's playerbase. But I think it is worth the risk, just to try. Even if its just in a couple playlists. I don't have any statistics handy regarding the average crucible player count across every season and frankly I do not care. If it is true that the crucible player count is the highest it has ever been, regardless of how bad matchmaking is for the casual player, then so be it. I find it hard to believe but I know the numbers don't lie. I just want to make the point that, even from my perspective, it is clear that the matchmaking is unfair. Thanks for reading my rant. TL:DR Crucible matchmaking is too punishing to the casual player, it leaves them with no where to go if they want to improve without playing against people leagues ahead of them in skill and experience.[/quote] You’re right of course. Good post. I did want to add to it that Bungie’s CBMM isnt really connection based and with a low player population it doesn’t provide the benefit claimed. It searched for location based matches assuming that will be the best connection, and fills lobbies as quickly as possible. Which is why even with CBMM the connections in lobbies and geographical location of players in lobbies are so widely inconsistent.

According to Destiny Tracker, Crucible had 450k players yesterday. CBMM isn’t putting as many players off as the forum complainers lead you to believe. Personally I enjoy playing crucible and the main thing that puts me off is when shots don’t register. That’s far more prevalent in SBMM so I’ve always been against it. But with Cross Play coming in I think Bungie should take advantage of the larger player pools and introduce a second Quickplay option and have: 1. Control, SBMM and fireteams allowed. 2. Clash, CBMM and solo queue only. This answers a few problems, namely a solo friendly playlist and a place for new players with SBMM.

People don't want SBMM. They're scared of getting wrecked from actual players better than them.

As a not top 5% player I just want a TRAILS/SWEATBOI free option for pvp

If you're this versed in PvP......you know how Bungie's idea of SBMM works right? You know it makes what we have now look good in comparison right? Unless you're fine with carrying team mates and never having the balanced lobbies you seek. Their last iteration of SBMM caused people to stack more because their idea of skill based match making was god tier levels of awful. I'm not saying match making doesn't need fixing, it does. But it should not force someone like yourself into sweating all the time essentially imprisoning you. However it shouldn't be a protective shield to the timmy do nothings either. What we need is a system that does what it states. While also offering stable connections without perpetuating the issues previously encountered. Until I see such a system. SBMM will never be on the table as an option to me.

As an only PVE player, I love cbmm. Pubstomp is fast, and I have my pinnacle.

Ranked systems are the only way to go at this point. With dedicated servers. Otherwise peer to peer is gonna trash any hope of evolving this game into well anything pvp related.

Cool bro, why not use those skills in a game with good pvp?

Humble brag... You should Google what that means. Damn bro... Did you dislocate your shoulder with all that patting yourself on the back? You could have left out the multiple paragraphs on how "great" you are at rumble. No one cares... You make hard to want to finish reading your wall of text after opening with 3+ paragraphs of not so subtle bragging. Without all the bragging we get several smaller paragraphs of criticism of PvP. Nothing that hasn't been said a million times already, I might add. Just saying... Ben with a little b.