JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
5/15/2020 6:47:44 AM
299

I'm very disturbed with Ana's new dialogue vocabulary of "Giant kamikaze spaceship"

I really think that this use of vocabulary is historically and culturally very inappropriate. Just like the game current does not contain any "[url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url]" word (or maybe I don't know of its existence yet, but if it does, I don't approve of using that word either), I believe "kamikaze" to be same. It is not a synonym for self-destruct, it is an act of human degradation, one of many war crimes and crime against humanity done by a nation. And you cannot say that it was used as the meaning "the divine wind that neutralized invasion to Japan", because there is no such context in "giant kamikaze spaceship". And yes, there are other games that use the words that I'm saying are inappropriate. While I do not personally approve them, they are usually games that have such context, that either the game contains such factions, the world is cruel and crude, and/or the characters are foul-mouthed or sinister or crazy. From what I have played, I had the impression that the world Bungie is building in Destiny, and the character of Ana Bray does not fall under any of those above. Yes, Destiny world is post-apocalypse facing another apocalypse soon to come. But despite all feuds and bloodshed during the dark age, humanity of Destiny regrouped under noble causes and guardians stood to protect humanity. It was Bungie that separated light bearers to guardians, and Ana is a guardian. I really cannot understand Ana Bray using "kamikaze". Why would she use that word? There is a difference between carefree, casual personality to inconsiderate personality. I believed Ana Bray to be former, and I hope that Bungie will rethink about what vocabulary they are using to build and describe their characters and world.

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by FL00FING AB0UT: 5/16/2020 4:55:20 PM
    I’m usually the first person to be like, “uhhhh should that be there?” But in this case, I really don’t understand the harm. Kamikaze means “divine wind” in Japanese and actually refers to a different event in the 13th century wherein a typhoon saved Japan from invasion because it wiped out the Mongolian naval fleet, it’s not as if it has no other meaning besides the negatively viewed one. Americans might be sensitive to it because of history, but in no way did I think it was an unapproachable word. Just my thoughts.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Anedime: 5/15/2020 7:54:46 PM
    To all the people virtue signaling with "How would you feel if it mentioned a genocide". I survived the bosnian genocide of 92', what followed is some decade of religious and ethnic persecution, I've been beaten, spat on, had rocks thrown at me, all by the hands of catholic serbs. I would not have a problem with a genocide being mentioned. Hell, I'll take it one further, I would not mind a genocide joke. I'm indifferent to serbs broadly, and in a more general sense, I consume their media, interact with them normally, and some of my favorite singers are Serbs. A word, an act, or a statement, are only as offensive as you give them power. I am not dismissing the fact that there are people that find the word Kamikaze offensive, but I thoroughly believe that giving the word further power is the wrong step. I am adamantly opposed to removing the word Kamikaze specifically for this reason, this term is something that needs to be diffused, not something that needs to be empowered. To my people, the term Balia is equivalent to N-word for black people, it carries the same level of historically charged prejudice and offensive intent. I would not mind it being used in any game or work of fiction. I understand some individuals have lower disposition as others, so I can't expect everyone to come out with same level of tolerance as me from the get go, but feeding into the persecution syndrome rather than correcting it is the wrong approach. I am of the firm belief that actions such as call for censorship of any individual word are the wrong approach to a situation and will inevitably result in persecution of innocent people just living their lives. What comes to mind is a recent ban of a player in Warframe who said Limbo was Gay, the individual was homosexual themselves and were essentially banned for associating Limbo with themselves. I recommend anyone who is not familiar with it, to read up on Martin Niemöller's short poem "First they came". Remember, you may think you're being in the correct side, but correct isn't always right, path to hell is paved in good intentions.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    11 Replies
    • This is something I wish I could take credit for. U bring honor to these forums soldier. Offtopic salutes you!

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      1 Reply
      • The DICTIONARY definition of kamikaze is a Japanese aircraft loaded with explosives and making a deliberate suicidal crash on an enemy target. what is the almighty? an aircraft making a deliberate suicidal crash on an enemy target (earth/the traveler) what word is more suitable for it if there was? should there have been a paragraph describing the almighty being on course to crash into the Earth? By tiptoeing around every single corner, you only end up with sore legs and a huge waste of energy. I understand that you think that youre "exposing" bungie for being "insensitive bigots" or something like that to get some sort of satisfaction as you triumph over "the man" but you have to seriously consider, would you rather enjoy the game even if it may be a little crude sometimes, or will you complain about the most minute of details so that you can recieve satisfaction from your echo chambers? and if a mod eventually sees this due to a hate speech report or something, I dont think that bigotry is right or anything, I just think that nitpicking from players is as helpful as complaining about guardian games.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Edited by piratepatchy243: 5/16/2020 3:10:59 PM
        [quote]While I do not personally approve them, they are usually games that have such context, that either the game contains such factions, the world is cruel and crude, and/or the characters are foul-mouthed or sinister or crazy.[/quote] What the cabal aren't desperately fighting after another major loss? This game isn't cruel and crude because its seemingly peaceful enough for one person? On another note it's not surprising a deserter would say such things, that about covers all of those.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Guys, it really doesn't matter if that word is used as a sarcastic word in context. Because, in fact, Kamikaze is not just the stupid behavior of the Japanese military. It's not just the Japanese. In fact, the word "Kamikaze" is very complicated and sensitive for Koreans because the Japanese soldiers took Korean 17-year-old teenagers and made them commit suicide attacks.As I will mention later, Japan is idolizing these war victims.That's why there's talk about being careful with the use of this word. Some of these Koreans were forced to join the army and others joined the army for a living.For this reason, families who were victims of war were ashamed to live among the same Koreans. So what happened to 17-year-old teenagers? They were ordered to die. The families of these young men who attacked themselves didn't even know how this man lived or how he died. They didn't even know where he was buried. Japan, which made him commit suicide, honored him as a war hero and took him to their shrine. There was no consent from the bereaved family. It was revealed in Korea in the early 2000s. But this happened in the 1940s. And the Japanese government still has no apology for this past. The Korean government has also refused to admit that these 17-year-olds are 'war victims'.Now the historical truths are revealed and we are in the process of finding out that they are war victims. Kamikaze is not simply a word that can be used as a suicide attack battleship. It is not a war crime that only the Japanese military used, but an incident that took the aggressor and the colonized people and used it as a weapon of war weapons. But you guys use this word without thinking. Of course, Asians, except Japanese, are bound to be sensitive and complex to this word. I think you may be quite ignorant of the Pacific War and the war crimes Japan committed against the aggressors, but there are many interviews that come up just by searching the Internet as "Kamikaze Koreans."In fact, there are many colonial citizens who died from the use of Kamikaze. don't even know where they lived, how they were used in this war, and what their names are. And there's a lot of news articles that tell you why the word Kamikaze shouldn't be used recklessly, but you don't even search. I'll give you an example. Think of that word as 9.11. Imagine writing 9.11 instead of Kamikaze in that word. Are you allowed to do this? I don't want to take this example, when I think about civilian victims at the time, my heart aches and tears come out.I pray again for their repose. But imagine that the civilian passengers on the plane at the time were also terrorists and worshipped the victims who were used and killed. And the terrorists want this word to keep being mentioned. It's glorified, too. That's what happens to Koreans who are suffering from Kamikaze problem now Japan does not feel ashamed of Kamikaze, and instead tries to idolize and deify it, Korea is suffering from diplomatic problems. You also think of the word Kamikaze simply as a tactic of a Japanese plane attacking the U.S. military. I think Bungie actually used this word because he(she) didn't know how to express the plane with the bomb going down. I think the author himself(herself) wrote the word Kamikaze with light thought.That's why there was a lack of historical awareness. So Kamikaze is not the behavior of the stupid Japanese military that belongs only to Japan. There are also colonial victims who died of other causes (you can say it's our grandfather's generation). There are your grandfathers and grandmothers who suffered from the atrocities of the Japanese army at the time. I don't mean to use this word Kamikaze, It is advantageous only for a country to idolize this war crime to benefit from using the word Kamikaze without thinking. Now Japan is not ashamed to use the word Kamikaze. Rather, they want the word Kamikaze to be known and the war to be glorified more. It means they fought the right war.That's why diplomacy in East Asian countries is complicated because they're victims of war. That's why we don't get along well. They still don't think they are war criminals. I think they are poor countries damaged by the United States. Someone was talking about the Bosnian war, so did Karadzic become deified? Did the soldiers who massacred civilians become idolized? I know the right people are still solving the problem of war crimes, and by the right judgment, he is now serving a life sentence. People who have suffered from Genoside are still victims of people. However, Japan has not punished any Kamikaze commander, the ones who created the order, and it is now worshipping them Victims of war crimes also claim that they did so because they wanted to.I would like to express my condolences to your experience in the war. But I felt sad that your words could be taken lightly by the use of these words of war crimes. If you're going to use sensitive words to create a game story, it's important to write down what the word is and how the material is used. That's why you have to decide whether you can abuse this word or not and write it. We have to make a game. That way, we will be able to develop further and give the next generation or the current generation a proper perception of history. And a lot of people say it's just a game.There are a lot of people who say, "You're too sensitive, aren't you?" Can you say that to the Jews who suffered from the [url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url]? If the game is about Jewish camps, don't you think you should admit it if you want to check how it's handled and don't want it to be handled properly or if you want it to be revised? But your attitude seems to have a lot of people like that. I think people need to be more sensitive than war crime words and think about whether they can use them. Someone should be ashamed. You're saying 'Grow up' to this right intellectual. Pray for your grandparents who have tried to make world peace and the right history. Because their grandchildren are saying such stupid things. You're showing again that you're ignorant of history and only playing games whitout thinking. Bungie's quick acceptance of this feedback was more important than anything else and knew what the priorities were. 'They should have fixed the game system first.' You may be ignorant, but you shouldn't use offensive language anymore if you know it.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        2 Replies
        • Grow up.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • Oh my! Heavens to Betsy! They used PG rated war slang in a game that literally has the objective of killing. What’s next? Those poor sweeper bots that live in servitude?

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • Ok Karen

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • Edited by Ghostfire239: 5/16/2020 3:16:54 AM
          I take it that we should also be offended about Cursed Thralls, Fanatics, and Screebs? Almost anything in Destiny (or any other game) can be seen as offensive to someone if you [i]want[/i] to see it that way Grow up. Censorship doesn’t solve anything, if anything it makes things worse.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          2 Replies
          • (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • OK... NOW I've heard everything. Imagine being such a millennial that you're offended by a term used for SUICIDE pilots from 1941 that sided with THE AXIS POWERS IN WW2! HOLY SHIT. Also Kamikaze is an accepted dictionary term. Look it up. It's not derogatory, and if you're offended by it, well... get used to the English language snowflake.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            2 Replies
            • I think... you've had your share of internet for a couple of weeks now.. take a break from it all, and stay away from videogames for some time as well...

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • Look I'm trying to be as respectful as possible to your complaint. You are never going to see that text in the game probably ever again. you are probably going to forget about it within 2 weeks. and life will continue as normal. Don't try to flip out on the little things because that makes the bigger things more difficult to tackle

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • LOL Pathetic.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • Word use seems fine to me, Cabal has defeat after defeat while being in the solar system and their last ditch afford for now is to throw their biggest orbital vessel at us. Also the Destiny world is crude if you look into what’s actually happening. Siblings torturing me another for power, being ripped apart as food, or dying due to dismemberment.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • Edited by Strait in HerMuz: 5/16/2020 4:21:14 AM
              Solar Minimum has already started. Here is the first Giant Snowflake of the year bois!!

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • You are taking it to personal it’s a video game about shooting space aliens

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              1 Reply
              • I think you’re a little too sensitive if this is truly an issue to you

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              • I am shocked you are so triggered over a word in a video game. But then again you take offense in the 3rd Reich soldier name(which is idiotic in my opinion)so you are kind of lost already

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                1 Reply
                • Tsugi ni omae wa “How can you be so insensitive?” TO IU

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                • I think the issue is cultural. For most Americans it simply means suicide attack by crashing your vehicle into the enemy. A single word that fully sums up the concept of what's going on. You can't really misinterpreting the situation when giant kamikaze spaceship is said. We know what it is and what it wants to do with those three simple words

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  1 Reply
                  • <Humanity and "noble" don't belong in the same sentence. We're about to get reamed by an Armada of [REDACTED] under the command of a literal God of Darkness that wants to remove sentient life from the universe and let everything else run its course until fate decides their time is up and there are people in-universe and IRL that would still legitimately join them even with the fact that they tried to kill us during the Collapse. The Cabal of the Red Legion are, quite literally, on their last legs. They have no other options, so they send their station crashing into Earth. The word "kamikaze" in this context is a reference to military strategy, not an offensive term.>

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    1 Reply
                    • I’m sure the idea of demonic aliens that worship evil is offensive too? To yanno like hundreds if not thousands of years of religions. Alongside making fun of the Roman Empire one of the pillars behind what all of Europe is today? Or the idea that most all of the only survivors of the world are Russian, American, and Chinese meaning every other country and people were too weak too survive? All also offensive right?

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    • “Giant Lee Roy Jenkins!” Would that be better? Not trying to be insensitive.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    • This would be like if part of a quest had us go on a "Trail of Tears" or something and expecting Natives to be alright with it. Or calling one of drifter's old lore stories about slaughtering a village "Wounded Knee". "It doesn't bother me or [i]my[/i] people, so everyone else must accept it. I am the sole moral compass and everyone should yield to my low standards" is not a valid excuse to keep insensitivity in the game, even if unintended. It actually just serves to out you as a megalomaniac, a legitimate form of psychosis often requiring commitment to an institution.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    1 2 3 4 5 6 7
                    You are not allowed to view this content.
                    ;
                    preload icon
                    preload icon
                    preload icon