It’s called not caring.

I actually have to agree somewhat. Although we have gotten several new sets of gear, there should be something unique for every unique activity. I dont feel like we have a HUGE shortage of new weapons and such per se, but the overall pool and the unique sources for that pool are the most fundamentally lacking area of the game. You can have the greatest activity ever made but if THE rewards aren't there, people aren't going to do them for long. Final Assault could have just 1 new weapon added to the Vex offensive pool and people wouldn't have been all that upset. It's actually kind of amazing how much a great reward can help forgive a less than quality activity even (not saying Vex Offensive is a less than quality activity, I mean in a general sense). Loot, to me, seems to be the easy way to give players the most bang for their buck and they should be constantly designing as many as possible just to even add to something that may become an activity 2 years down the road, just to have in the back pocket.

Clearly you’ve never heard of Blizzard.

This sums up a lot of my frustrations with activities and rewards. The “generic” feeling has permeated every aspect of Destiny at this point. Nothing feels intentional, it’s like Bungie has been building an assembly line so that eventually they can just flip a switch and the game “does stuff”. That doesn’t inspire players. That doesn’t surprise or delight anyone. Players want to feel excited about the world, like there is something new and important to discover. Strike loot was probably one of the most significant steps in that direction but where did that go? That in a nutshell is an indicator of Bungie’s priorities. Not giving players significant items that feel connected to the world or stories that feel earned. Instead they feel the need to throttle loot and progression out of... what... some fear that we’ll get too far or earn too much and get bored? That is NOT why we get tired of the game. They really need to start not just listening to players but acting on what really makes us excited to play the game.

[quote]Honestly. After 5+ years. How do tone def changes and "finales" happen? In any other loot based game, as a player. When I do X, whatever that may be, I expect there to be a Y. If I complete an activity, I, as a player, expect their to be something waiting for me at the end. And the fun of playing a game like that, is the anticipation of what that reward might be. the formula for making this a fun and repeatable process, IMO, centers on how "good" that reward might be, as it relates to the amount of effort involved in getting there. That is a simple breakdown of any loot based system. Do X, get Y. Bungie, when we log into the game, our goal is not JUST to have "fun". "Fun" is subjective. Players find "fun" in many different ways. But in a game centered on various systems of progression. That "fun" is always tied to some sort of accomplishment. Some sort of "reward". That can range from getting 30 kills in crucible. To leveling up via weekly bounties. To having that coveted piece of loot drop. But there ALWAYS needs to be something tangible that can be associated with the time spent playing. In short, there always needs to be "loot". Be it an item, character progress, change in status, whatever. There has to be SOMETHING gained for the time put in. And that, to me, is the biggest issue with Destiny. Far too often, the output does not match the input. You ask for more and more investment from the player, for what seems to be, less and less of a payoff. That's not a community problem. That's not a game systems problem. That is a problem with the core philosophy of your development and design process. Rather than being the central premise of developing the game. You treat that fundamental aspect as secondary to whatever it is you THINK is more important. And that is why people complain. That is why people are underwhelmed by things like Final Assault. Why they question what is and isn't part of Eververse. Why people generally dislike the way you manage the game. Because you prioritize your "vision" over giving people reasons to buy into that vision. When D2 launched you added Lost Sectors. And prior to launch. I was pretty excited about the idea of secret and repeatable mini dungeons, wondering what types of loot I would find. Looking forward to farming mini bosses for items I liked. But that's not what they were. That's not how they were implemented. All of these cool little areas. Fun encounters. And what was the reward? Junk items. Nothing special. Not even specific world items that could be farmed. Nope. Tokens. We got tokens to go and buy gear. Huh? What sense did that ever make in terms of a loot based game? Why waste such a cool idea? What was the point? You keep strikes in game. Yet you take the primary reason people ran them over and over again in D1 out of the equation(unique loot). Again, huh? WHO on your team thought that this was something so insignificant that it was not made a priority for launch? IN A LOOT BASED GAME? Step back, stop whatever you are working on, and take a long look at the core elements of Destiny. Remember how you sold the game to the player. Remember that YOU presented loot as being something to be hunted and coveted. A reward for both time and our ability to complete a task. Season of the Undying has all of the components needed to be successful, EXCEPT for these core elements. Core elements that have been missing since D2 launched. If I am doing Lost Sectors, or Strikes on the moon. Regardless of the vendor specific frames and bounties. There needs to be SOMETHING unique to those elements that differentiates them from season to season. Like Nightmare Hunts, the dungeons, etc. Or you need to remove them altogether. Why? Because you are constantly pushing us into these activities. You create quests that require dozens of completions of strikes, gambit, crucible, lost sectors, public events... We HAVE to do those things, apart from the new content, just to progress. To complete seasonal quests. They all remain a huge part of the grind. So they too need to be rewarding. 50 Gambit matches is a lot less annoying if it has Season of the Undying themed gear. Ornaments, weapons, shaders, whatever. Doing the same lost sector every week is a lot less tedious if there is a chance at something rare, something unique, that can ONLY be obtained in the lost sector. This is what people should get in a season. Not just an XP track where I hit a rank and collect an arbitrary reward. The community wants to FEEL the value of the activities they do. They want to accomplish something, no matter how tedious it might seem. That is how you keep people happy. And ultimately that is how you keep people coming back for more.[/quote] They don’t listen or “read us” they have their own vision, and their own plan. I mean look at the nerf cycles from D1 to D2. These forums are just a placebo. Nothing more.

too long...simply "not rewarding enough to be fun"

You guys are killing me. Heh.. I wish I knew just one person with Bungie to get a foot in the door. I've actually spent time creating ways to make each player's Guardians feel unique to other players' as well as fixing the issue with the repetitive tasks such as the Strike Playlist. Or, at the very least, improved heavily upon them. I have ways to actually let you build the Guardians you want without just making everyone super-OP. To give each player meaningful choice in what their Guardians do and how they're built and what they specialize in. I came up with a more unique story for Destiny rather than just another big baddie who speaks in vague metaphors that we kill each and every week without explanation as to how and why they keep resurrecting for no reason. Only problem is that none of it can be used for Destiny 2 because D2 is a Frankenstein's monster of unclear, last-minute decisions. It would have to be for the next game but it would actually give meaning to what you do. Explain things. Change a lot of what is established in this rinse and repeat manner they keep doing. Let you build the Guardian you want without needing the very specific rolls on your armor's stats and element to do it. Not just mods for auto rifle handling or heavy ammo finder but actually allow you to make the powerhouse of a Guardian that you want with an ever-changing season to let you build again and again however you choose to.

I’m glad someone put it to words. I’ve had these thoughts for a while now.

I hope your listen to people feed back bungie, people are getting pissed off and rightfully so, sick and tired of re-used content, re skinned enemy's/armour and weapons and re-skinned maps. bungie destiny is 5 years old you need add new content new ways for player play your game instead of repeated weekly resets repetitive strikes and nightfalls and lazy effort less game designs, ether adapt to the current market for games or fail!! the choice is your as it stand i will not be buying any more content for destiny as its just boring !!. Also remove your Eververse micro transactions from the game you were asked this in the past, and i see you have reverted back to your old ways people are getting pissed off do you think you can keep pulling the wool over peoples eye you are wrong!!.

I would be happy if EVERY strike had some type of specific loot tied to it. I remember running the ROC strikes in D1 like a madman cause a buddy of mine got Hawkmoon to drop on the Undying Mind strike. Now with Shadowkeep we have ONE random drop (Monte Carlo) that isn't tied to a quest. People threw a fit in D1 when they couldn't get certain weapons to drop due to RNG but not me, it gave me a reason to play every day. Nothing like coming home and running 3 nightfalls with the chance of getting a exotic that you really want. And if it didn't drop you just kept playing or running ROC strikes. Now we're showered with legendaries and exotics are tied to a quest. They had the formula right in the beginning, but some hated the RNG, but man it was exciting when you saw that exotic roll across the ground. Then 3 of Coins were introduced and that made everything worse with certain enemies you could farm and have all the exotics in a few days lol. I know I'm probably in the minority but I miss RNG exotics. There's no excitement just doing a quest and having the weapon handed to you or given to you in the season pass.

This perfectly sums up what I have been feeling the last few weeks playing Destiny. I keep thinking to myself: "Why am I am even griding this activity." Well written.

Agreed, I think cool loot is essential at the destination (as a chance drop) in a loot based game, even if the journey is spectacular. But Bungie has limited resources and they seem to be spending quite a bit of those nowadays in non earnable cosmetics. No one would complain about eververse if the loot was plentiful (i.e. Meaningful vendor gear, cool end game ornaments for challenging activities etc.). Unrelated to loot but for player motivation in comp, it would be good if we had a ranked system based on skill as in any competitive activity. Glory is no longer an indication of that because anyone can hit 5500 as they play players in their skill brackets. Perhaps have tiers, such as bronze up to diamond where players can track improvements and can be rewarded with emblems/ornaments as they climb the ranks.

How can they even have a vision if it's almost literally always different. How can anybody buy into their vision if what they create never matches what they say. If they are going to create an mmo game, something that they HAVE TO nail down is the reward for completing an activity and not just with the same shit we always keep getting. It's why I HATE the dungeons bungie creates in terms of replayability. It's a cool experience the first time around, but it's just as valuable as lost sectors are. It's just...so stupid that it works out this way. And normally I'm not too critical of how they handle the game and honestly I don't even care about the the undying mind or how it was handled because I never cared for shadowkeeps story anyways...but there is just so much more that could have been done to make it matter. Just a few things to list: Any vault of glass designed weapon. Any vault of glass designed armor. Literally a copy and paste would have been less anger inducing than nothing. And if not farmable weapons, vex mythoclast and I don't even LIKE vex mythoclast. Or a SINGLE new vex weapon of the oh I don't know...many different weapons that dont get much representation like 750 smgs or precision frame grenade launchers (yes those exist). There's so many times where just dropping even a SINGLE new piece of gear would have made it matter more, but there isn't anything. This game isn't even for the hardcore because besides chasing titles and things like that, there's almost nothing to do after the main flow of content stops. And even when there is gear to chase, sometimes it's just so bad that it wouldn't even be worth your time. Essence of failure makes perfect sense for arc logic. I like to farm weapons. If the raid has good rewards I will play it. If comp had unique weapons I would play it. If strikes had their own loot I would play it. Bungie just needs to take a step back and slow down on trying to create story based content for the game. They can't get a story right pretty much at all and so it's just a waste of resources when it won't even matter in a week. I remember the weapons and gear I farmed for to get where I want to be. The story basically has no impact on the game anyways so why do they even bother. I'm not going to say that I think it's easy to do what I'm asking, but with a studio like theirs that can put so much effort into the lore, ambiance and musical track for the game...why can't the same amount of effort be put into the part that matters more than all of those combined? I like Destiny and I think the overlying story is interesting, but when it comes to keeping my attention on the actual game it starts to wane more and more as they keep pumping out these activities that are cool the first time then worthless afterwards. I know that's what would happen regardless even if the rewards were there, but it still gives value to the activity in mind. I do play Destiny just for fun a good chunk of the time, but how long do I have to act like having a reason to play it is less important?

How is it possible that so many of you think the devs give a crap about the community? Destiny is a product that is intended to be as profitable as possible and the people in charge have their own ideas. Also you guys aren’t popular streamers.

Well said!

In a couple of words they just don't care anymore. They rather cut corners, and if they do care its about Eververse nothing else.

It all boils down to the simple fact that Destiny is good in [i]concept[/i] and poor in [i]execution[/i]. Bungie seem to have decided to go down the Lionhead route, with Mr Smith firmly grasping the title of new Peter Molyneux. So desperate to overhype even the smallest content that it cannot help but fail. Also, the issue with a [i]vision[/i], is that it absolutely has to have a [i]defined[/i] direction..... and with the current Bungie structure, there is no unified direction and an obvious lack of communication internally. It is a shocking indictment of their professionalism Edit: I loved the Fable series and enjoyed them, but the overhyping and hyperbole engaged in by Mr Molyneux made a series of decent games seem [i]disappointing[/i], when they couldn't reach his supposed "vision"

This post is so underrated. Bungo, hire this man right now!

*golf claps* These are some pretty interesting points. From what I've been seeing so far, Bungie has seem to become so lost into saying what they want this game to be that they are forgetting to make that game to begin with.

This guy gets it. Bungo just hire him and all your problems will be solved.

You cannot put into words the comment the OP has made more succinctly than this.