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Edited by Ted Fundy:
11/3/2019 4:19:49 AM
70
Bungie, Please, Can We Talk About PvP
Cammy's video inspired me to make this post, however it's something I've been dealing with for a while now:
Where do I even start. PvP feels so unbelievably terrible to me right now. It feels like something that is void of skill expression or creativity. There are clearly broken loadouts/guns/builds/exotics that Cammy addresses, but I'll go over the main ones I have gripes with.
1. Last Word, Beloved- Like come on, whenever I have to play against this setup it either feels like get face rolled or switch to the setup.
2. Recluse- Bungie, the community has been asking for recluse nerfs in PvP for so long, and you nerf the master of arms perk in PvE only? (Funny how the gun is still the best PvE smg too). This gun has been running rampant with virtually no changes to it. The amount of mountaintop recluse loadouts I come across make PvP so unbearable and just a plain annoyance that I can't get any enjoyment out of. With mountaintop recluse especially, there's little skill expression. Bad players can perform pretty well with this setup, and if a good player is using this setup, everyone has to switch to it or something similar to even compete. It's really ridiculous.
3. One eyed mask- PLEASE this has been a topic of discontent for the whole PvP community for as long as I can remember, and it is just now getting a note saying you're working on it? Divinity, which has been out for what, less than a month, is already getting nerfed to where it's going to be useless, but one eyed mask has been a major issue for how long now?
4. Seasonal Artifact Mods- Get this out of PvP please, it only negatively impacts it with the over powered mods like arc battery.
Edit: Forgot about Erentil. Yeah, Erentil can piss off (although it doesn't make me quite as enraged as everything else).
It used to be that I could hop on and play some PvP when I was bored and genuinely enjoy myself. Yeah, there would be a couple games that I didn't enjoy, but for the most part it was fun. Now it's just as cammy puts it, "degenerate" loadouts that require little skill and allow people to faceroll games, forcing you to switch to said loadouts. It feels like I can't load up into a game of rumble anymore to try out a new loadout or new guns without facing someone using some sort of combo involving mountaintop, recluse, last word, beloved, one eyed mask, etc. While I think it's okay for some weapons to be strong, I don't think it is okay to have a small set of weapons that you either use or be stomped by. It's genuinely not fun when there's no skill expression, no creativity in loadouts, no feeling of accomplishment when crutching on these setups is required. I really think that PvP has a lot of potential, there's overall just some glaring issues that direly need to be adressed.
Thanks
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At the end of the day bungie has a small part to play the rest falls into the individuals that chose to invest. factz Bungie-needs to make all guns borderline equal and force player creativity. Player base- needs to realize that in our skull resides a brain. A powerful one at that stop being a bunch of brainless cattle following the latest trend. Thats my piece.
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4 RepliesEdited by michael: 11/3/2019 4:24:46 PMCammy is the only destiny content creator I will consistently agree with because we play the game in a similar way and I think notice a lot of the same things. I was hoping that video would be a full length commentary but he got his point across well enough. Being powerful is one thing and D2 has done well with this since forsaken specifically with the inflated special ammo economy and increase in time to kill. But having outlier items and loadouts that completely overshadow everything else in terms of power such as OEM, Arc battery wormhusk way of the wind, The last word, and recluse is is another problem. Yes the game should make you feel strong and no I do not want to go back to D2 year 1. But what many fail to understand is there is a HUGE middle ground between D2 year 1 and what we have now. Yes we should feel powerful but these flavour of the season outlier loadouts need to go. .
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5 Repliesdont listen to the "bla bla stop crying" people. you are bang on the money as is what can only be one of the best pvp players in the destiny franchise. Pvp has been stale and boring for some time, add in the match making changes and now any game mode you play is basically a comp game, everyones got the best guns in the game on and will not even try anything else in case their KD drops 0.05. its boring, very stale and frustrating for anyone who dares try guns that are off meta the map rotations are also boring for the 6v6 game mode's. the amount of times iv played the same maps over and over because of the maps that were removed zzZzZz. I like you preferred to jump on pvp have a less then "I cant let my kd be less then 4.0" game and have some funny and stupid game moments with guns that are often laughed at. but now, now its 6v6 comp every game, no matter the game mode if you like 6v6 madness even control which I believe is aimed at the casual side of pvp is just full of sweaty gold medal farmers. you know the type, mind benders ace or whatever trios farming new players and anyone whos done with comp because they hit 5500 in one day, the hand canon range nerf has also caused many to sit back and plink away with the mida or other high rpm scouts which can be frustrating to play against if you prefer the classic run and gun play style of destiny, combine that with bigger more open maps and once you spawn you are getting pegged by some mida guy chilling half way across the map.
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I may be biased because I love the sniper+hand cannon combo, but I have no issue with Last Word+Beloved. It never feels like I at least didn't have a chance to outplay them in that fight, whereas with Recluse, a gun I do not have and one that out-DPS's literally every gun I DO own, it feels entirely out of my control. I believe that the spamminess and forgiveness of a gun should relate to the kill time of it. Auto rifles and SMGs should be slower to kill because they are easy to use. Hand cannons and scouts should be able to duel people quickly, provided they hit their shots. Pulses that are 450 RPM or lower are in the middle.
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1 Replynerf everything so we have to melee ourselfs through the content.
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11 RepliesYeah... I'm not sure. - I can't stand Last Word, and think it shouldn't have come back. It broke D1, it breaks D2, just to a slightly lesser extent - Recluse is fine and pretty much impossible to nerf without taking it from "good sidegrade to a given 900 RPM," to just being bad, anyways. It's pretty much a green with higher base stats unless you're chaining kills, by proxy of that, I don't think it needs a Nerf. - OEM I think is fine because half of it is mediocre, and at least how I play is hardly benefitted by marking targets. - No idea why he complains about FL, I only see it used by the poor souls trying to farm Mountaintop - Mountaintop is only obnoxious by proxy that the other breach loaders... Kind of suck. The bounce mechanic hurts you way more than it will help you, and the upside to using a non-MT Launcher is very small. Tbh, the entire class should get hit with the Rework Hammer
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PC and all of its 14 players have a different game than the (much larger) rest of the community. TLW and recluse are literally only a problem because everything on PC has zero recoil and those weapons main drawbacks are the recoil. On console you will rarely see recluse in high comp games because it’s lackluster against anything but bots. The last word is meta on console, but not remotely close to broken. that’s a PC problem for the bakers dozen PC players
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7 RepliesGit gud. No nerfs.
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No no more nerfs except oem and recluse. This entire dlc was just nothing but nerfs. Stop it
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6 RepliesEdited by BADMAGIK: 11/4/2019 4:49:07 PMOh look, another forum user trying to promote yet another youtuber/streamer as if their word should be the deciding one all be all factor as to what direction this game should go.
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4 RepliesLast word is fine.
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The second I saw Cammy I gave you a downvote. He is the most entitled and whiny content creator for this game.
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All cammy does is whine. All bungie has to do is give PC m&k the same recoil as console and boom recluse and TLW nerf. OEM isn't broken if it was youd see 10+ titans every game. Weird how everything is Destiny history that's op/broken everyone abuses it except for OEM....
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Edited by C1B3D: 11/4/2019 12:57:55 PMWhen anything, Destiny 2 needs way more broken loadouts, abilities and insane Exotics, its where all the fun comes from. PvP should be a fun mode where people can have fun with their toys, its an looter shooter after all, you should be rewarded well for your grind. Or do someone like to play games like Diablo, spend alot of time and still feel weak? Destiny PvP is not esport, was never and would never be, and when some youtubers having the feel the game is not balanced, guess what, you playing an item based game, items are the show runner. And the faster Bungie get that, and are less focused to nerf the next fun aspect for PvE players, because of some streamers or youtubers who hanging 24/7 in Crucible and apparently are not that skilled to play real esport games that are focused and balanced around PvP, the better for the future of the game.
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at this point bungies constant disrespect to the pvp community aswell as the 1 step forward 10,000,000 steps back mentaility make for the most incompetent devs ever, if you ask me, bring back activition to fix the game cause right now i trust them more than bungie
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My support is with you. Also, y'all down below hating on content creators can cut it out. They're gamers just like the rest of us, except they're probably more skilled than most of us. And due to the amount they play, I place more trust in them when it comes to opinions of game balance than most of the *cough*trolls*cough* I mean people on these forums.
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Bungie has heard your concerns. In response, we'll nerf well of radiance again and buff titans again. Auto rifles will get another nerf and pulse rifles will somehow get worse too. Remember that nice shottie you had? Gone. If you're not playing with pinnacle weapons and hand cannons, you're wrong! Sorry, what was the complaint again? Anyway, we're excited to be in this journey with you!
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Just came here to say "skill based matchmaking" sucks more than ever
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8 RepliesEdited by Lost Sols: 11/3/2019 3:58:40 PMIt doesn't matter what an opponent uses. The differences in kill times are so quick, they're a blink of an eye and when you combine all the ways to INSTANTLY shut down anyone using any weapon in this game, if you, Cammy or any one else can't figure out a counter, that's not a game issue. All this is, is elitism and the same crowd that got to spend the entirety of last year preying on lesser opponents wanting to get back to easy kills and not having to try. One month of the 99% having a Crucible that's awesome for them and the elite are losing their minds begging Bungie to cater the entire sandbox to the 1% again. No thank you. Countering great weapons is a challenge. Top players don't want that. They want to post 40, 50, 60 kill videos for likes and views. This is absolutely the best Crucible I've played since House of Wolves. I'm at mythic lll on my way to my 7th Valor reset and I see incredible diverse loadouts and have ZERO issue countering anything you all are complaining about. Cammy isn't a bad guy, but that video is awful.
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Well I agree that the meta needs some switching up, but I do not agree with some of your comments. 1. Last word: OP but not can be countered 2. MT & Recluse: Bad players can't use it right, good players deserve their combo, and in case you havent noticed, the meta now is scout and shotty. There are definitely less MT recluse combo, so I dont know what you are smoking. 3. OEM: Yes nerf definitely, nerf it to the ground and into the vault 4: Like you say it's seasonal. If you don't like it don't play this season.
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Dear Bungie please make PvP -blam!- slapping only (and without melee abilities when slapping). Hmm, Titans hands are to hard when they slap so make us all bare handed. Hmm, His hands are bigger then mine so please give everyone the same sized hands. Damn that stung my hand when I slapped that Warlock, please change slaps to rock, paper, scissors. Dear Bungie everyone keeps choosing rock. please nerf rocks ... ... ...
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13 RepliesPersonally, I think master of arms should [i]only[/i] proc on kills with other weapons, to put it more in the role of a secondary that you switch to after a kill, how I imagine bungie intended it to be.
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Edited by Shades ofGreige: 11/4/2019 12:26:12 AMBungie lowered the skill floor and nerfed handcannons to entice New Light players to jump in and not get completely recked as to not want to play pvp again. 3v3 freelance it’s bad though, except for a few tweaks to heavy and no seasonal artifact mods. Every playlist outside of 3v3 is about as casual as it’s ever been and it seems intentional. And that’s fine but sometimes it’s nice to jump into a more hectic game mode for a bit of fun but still have some semblance of having your metal tested. The seasonal artifact is an amazing addition to PvE but it just compounds the issue we’ve had with PvP. Maybe the new version of Trials thats being worked on will be the game mod worth staying in for the more competitive and the rest of pvp will be for the casuals who just want to have some mindless fun.
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16 RepliesI'm not even good at pvp and I don't have a problem with these so called "degenerate" loadouts. Saying that they require no skill is an excuse for getting outplayed. There's nothing in this game that doesn't have a hard counter. Don't try to out duel TLW with a freaking Duke inside of TLW's optimal range.
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I completely agree, Epstein didnt kill himself
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Sealed Ahamkara Grasps which are near useless get nerfed in 2 weeks but One Eyed Mask which has been broken since inception remains untouched. who in their right mind created an exotic with extra damage, wall hacks and an overshield? but hey lets nerf gauntlets that let you reload quicker IF you hit a melee.
