''Change my mind'' Is a cheap and frustrating statement that has become popular quite recently. It's rather infuriating when all you have to say is that. I know your story though as you have explained it to Aifos. Spoiler because longer read.[spoiler] I think we all want games, well at least in the triple A industry to be bigger and better than the last game they made. Take the disconnect that happened with hardcore destiny 1 players to destiny 2: - The gun play - Story - Getting from 1 planet to another It was a much more refined experience but the content drop off was such a steep difference. - All guns where now pre-fixed with the exact same perks and sights to choose, the removal of Heavy machine guns and the decision to put all secondary weapon archetypes in the heavy slot and fill the other 2 with PRIMARY'S!! - Ability trees where streamlined offering even less choice - Armour was now literally fashion as they held nothing of any consequence (Except recovery Armour) - ''Mods'' where nothing but bonus's you didn't even notice, unless you changed the element of your gun. It took about a year but with DLC's 1 and 2 nothing really changed however the 3rd release brought along many, many changes that fixed almost all problems I labeled. With the exception being that ability trees are still streamlined but they did add 9 extra supers for those who brought the forsaken expansion.[/spoiler] Overall it is my opinion that I have loved destiny from the start and that feeling has not wavered. So I am biased. There will always be holes with live service games. There is also the fact that these games will become unplayable one day, when the servers come off. It makes me sad to think about such a truth but .. I dunno. In the moment, how I'm feeling now, I just love to play them and be excited as they forth more content and fixes. Maybe I'm, just a shrill.

i agree games need to be good out the gate

I can’t. Games should be finished when they are released and Dlc should be an afterthought.

I give [i]NMS[/i] a pass because Hello Games has legitimately put in a lot of effort to improve it rather than dropping it like it's hot (*[i]cough[/i]* [i]ME:A Quarian DLC[/i] *[i]cough[/i]*) but in general I agree.

That’s true but it’s still preferable to the alternative which is leaving the game to rot. Overall I would like games in a good state when they release but if not the attempt to fix it rather than give up and move on is somewhat appreciated.

This whole “I’m not going to actually propose an argument, and instead say just say ‘change my mind’” thing needs to stop, too. Anyway, I agree to a point. People releasing barebones games, and then fixing them up later isn’t something I want to support. [i]Buuut[/i], there’s an issue. Especially for smaller devs, if you hold a game for too long, you’ll wind up broke, and put out no game at all. I would rather them release a game early, and fix it as they go, rather than have them go out of business trying to add a bunch to it. This only applies to games that are already finished products, though. Things like Kirby: Star Allies. It was a complete, finisjed product, and the stuff they patched in later felt like icing on the cake, not the eggs they forgot to put in the recipe. Plus, there are advantages to the “enhance as we go” method. Using Kirby as an example again, compare the Dream Friends added in Wave 3 to the ones from the base game. They’re a lot more fleshed out, and unique, because they had that extra time, and feedback. I also don’t mind the idea of DLC. We spend a little bit more to get a little bit more of the game. I suppose my point is, like everything, the “release early, fix later” method is a tool. It can be done well, and it can be done poorly. As long as it’s done well I don’t think it is a problem.

But without the mentality, how will a game ever improve itself? It’s the people with those thoughts that keep a game alive, otherwise the game will die. Look at Destiny 2: launched in a horrible state. If it weren’t for the people holding onto the hope that the game would get better and all the problems would be fixed, it would’ve died before Forsaken.

You're right, man. I'm not even getting letters from those weird colleges nobody knows about. My life is heading NOWHERE. The women in my life treat me like shit and make sure I know how many people they're flirting with etc. I don't even like them. They're pieces of shit with daddy issues to boot. I haven't found an actual real person that understands me in forever. My parents can't wait for me to get out of their house even though I can't find a job. I've had a bullet with my name on it for a long -blam!-ing time. The game doesn't get better at all. [spoiler]b8[/spoiler]

But guys, I think if we just give Anthem a couple of years, it'll be the destiny killer. Trust me on this one.

The issue is that games that they know are not polished are being released. I’m fine with post release improvement, but that shouldn’t be cause for releasing unpolished or even unfinished games.