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Edited by Spawn:
11/27/2018 10:48:19 PM
84
Why the IKELOS nerf is a mistake
Before you charge in here and explain to me why I’m wrong, hear me out.
Let’s start by discussing the main problem with the gun - other guns couldn’t compete.
IKELOS was good, felt good, was incredibly rewarding. And it never left my special slot - something that I agreed needed to change.
However, nerfing was not the right call. The gun felt powerful, yes, maybe even OP. But again; other special weapons are lacking. There was no incentive to use a gun with another perk, because the other perks were underwhelming.
The main issue I have with the nerf is that it’s being treated as a cure-all by Bungie. By nerfing trench-barrel, the ILLUSION of other perks become stronger is created. By doing this, there’s no need to actually design perks to compete. If everything is equal, nothing is strong.
This is lazy game design, and not surprising at all. Remember oath keepers? How the “rework” came in the form of removing the perk that didn’t function? Or to cite something more recent, Wardens law; 2 perks not functioning? See ya!
What better way to save time than to just nerf the perk, rather than buff or create others? And this was an easy decision; for weeks, I’ve seen countless posts about how “IKELOS is TOO powerful.” Literally a year ago we were complaining about not feeling powerful, and what do you do? Ask for the one incredibly unique powerful special weapon to be nerfed.
Part of this is the community’s fault. The whole “if I can’t have it no one can” mentality is widespread. I mean, take five minutes to scroll through the forums or reddit and you’ll see the “Luna’s is too good” and “Good players shouldn’t get even more of an advantage,” which boils down to “I was too lazy/incompetent to get (insert weapon), so obviously it’s too powerful.”
And of course, there are always those who take pleasure in seeing these weapons fall, simply because they couldn’t obtain them. Except this time, these weapons aren’t locked around rng. The shotgun is available for another week.
But to get back in track, IKELOS wasn’t deserving of a nerf. This isn’t a case of the Mythoclast or Thorn. IKELOS was fine where it was; the problem is, and will remain, other guns not being strong enough to compete.
There will come weapons with perks better or equal to IKELOS in the future, I’m sure. And if the conversation goes like this, they’ll also be nerfed.
While not every weapon should be powerful, you shouldn’t nerf a good weapon simply because you are too lazy to create other perks. I mean, it’s not like they had to be damage based; get creative, create incentives to use other weapons.
As a week 1 D1 player, I know how this cycle goes, and I know how it ends. Maybe I am in the minority here, but if Bungie gets a free pass on this, they’ll come for the next “IKELOS.” This isn’t conjecture: this slippery slope is as familiar as it is unwelcome.
Let me know what you think. I want to have a candid discussion about this. This isn’t meant to be a “shit in Bungie -blam!- the community dumb casuals reeeeee” post. I genuinely want to have a conversation with those who agree, disagree, and fall somewhere in the middle.
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0] See Cozmo's thread here[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses.
Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
English
#feedback
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Needs more nerf
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The d1 spiral has begun. Prepare yourself luna users. Incoming nerfs.
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It’s only so their new “peniscicle” weapons look more attractive and actually get playtime now, since they aren’t as good as the Ikelos shotty was. It would be too embarrassing to see them outperformed. It’s just an asinine way to get mouth breathers and squeakers back in the grind. It would have been more intelligent, interesting, and fun to buff other weapons and add new perks. God forbid they make the game more enjoyable.
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If anything people will be more effective for people. Killing a boss takes a little and I mean a little more time. There is no cool down for trench barrel. People are making a big deal out of nothing.
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They could have instead buffed focus breathing by a buttload and give other shotguns trench barrel. And give some fusions POCKET INFINITY.
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1 ReplyWhat really pisses me off is that it buffs 3 rounds so you need 3 melees to buff your whole mag.
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9 RepliesEdited by Xenomorph: 11/29/2018 2:00:41 AMEveryone complaining about the nerf... I have a question for you. Have you [b][u]actually[/u][/b] used it post nerf? Cos the only real difference is that you have to punch, hold the trigger for 1 second (possibly less), punch, hold the trigger for 1 second (possibly less), rinse and repeat. Did the Last Wish raid 3 times last night, no problem. Essentially it's [b][u]still[/u][/b] the strongest energy weapon in the game, and Bungo's "nerf" pretty much did nothing. So quit whinging and just go use the damn gun already.
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They didnt nerf it because they were too lazy make other better perks they nerfed it because the damage it was doing rivaled exotic heavy weapons which should not be achieveable by a LEGENDARY SPECIAL weapon because it has no downside where as an exotic heavy has 2 before you even look at the guns stats, it require heavy ammo which can be quite scarce and it takes your exotic slot. All the "nerf" does is make its ability to shred bosses not happen as fast, you can still do just as much damage as before but your tempo is slowed down by requiring more melee hits, so the gun still does exactly what a special weapon should by dealing with mid tier enemies but it doesnt make boss encounters a joke by allowing its rediculous dps
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Edited by Desolator0: 11/29/2018 1:53:41 AM[quote]Part of this is the community’s fault. The whole “if I can’t have it no one can” mentality is widespread. I mean, take five minutes to scroll through the forums or reddit and you’ll see the “Luna’s is too good” and “Good players shouldn’t get even more of an advantage,” which boils down to “I was too lazy/incompetent to get (insert weapon), so obviously it’s too powerful.”[/quote] Nice strawman bud, most people don't complain about Luna's because they're too bad/entitled to get it, it's that the gun is so easy to use and kills way too fast. .6 second TTK on one of the easiest to use guns in the Crucible? You can't possibly tell me that it takes skill to hit two headshots with a 180 RPM hand cannon that has nearly maxed stability, a stability masterwork, and Zen Moment lmao. Inb4 "Oh you're just a trash casual, you don't have Luna's." I have both Luna's Howl [i]and[/i] Not Forgotten and they're both way too strong imo. It only further rewards the sweats with OP, easy to use guns that crush players who don't/can't get the gun.
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10 RepliesDisagree. Ikelos was way too strong, special weapons don't need to deal the DPS of a heavy weapon, they are used for "Special" Circumstances for mid tier enemies and some decent DPS. Ikelos nerf was the right call.
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4 RepliesI think its been nerfed mainly due to gambit. the whole teams of organised players all running that weapon and using it to melt a boss in 3 seconds meant one thing ......... it was an outlier. once a gun sticks out like that they wont bring everything up to its level. they will bring it down to everyone elses. I thought the weapon was fine everywhere else, but in gambit I knew that the way it melted would see it nerfed. If gambit didnt exist the gun wouldnt need to be nerfed, but gambit does exist.
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I do, honestly, agree. While tuning down a weapon or perk is good if done right, it also means you have to improve other things to ensure you're not just updating everything in a lazy fashion. For example: Bungie could've just reduced Trench Barrel's duration by half a second, and made improvements to perks that need more love. It will be more acceptable, and will properly introduce the powerful feeling you get when you kill stuff. That is why Sleeper's "nerf" was more acceptable: It didn't do anything that would greatly decrease its power in certain activities, followed by a PvE damage bonus to Swords and Fusion Rifles.
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The problem isn't with the shotgun, it's with other things. Like it wasn't a factor with it being void, because if tractor Cannon. The shot gun wasn't the problem, tractor Cannon was the problem so in Bungie logic they nerf the energy of the shot gun instead of tractor cannon. If you are going to be a prick and nerf the gun at least make trench barrel last longer or until the next the shots are fired.
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5 RepliesBefore crying about the most overused gun in the game, maybe take a step back and wait for all the new guns and that sexy shot gun shown in the previews of Black Armory. No? Remember this was a HEAVY WEAPON. It should be reworked to fit in a special slot. If you want it back to the way it was, request to have it moved to the Heavy slot. Last night everybody was still using it in Gambit and yes it takes down blockers in the same amount of time and nothing changed.
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It needed a nerf. Buffing other weapons wouldn’t solve anything because the main problem still exists. I’m fine with this nerf because now one weapon isn’t the only usable one. Sure, I think some buffs could be used along with the nerf, but I think this is a better step than just buffing other things.
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1 ReplyThis post and everyone on here is making me laugh so you want powerful shit right and you don’t want nerfing? So then why do you so called “i want to feel powerful” people want nova warp and blade barrage nerfed? Those are powerful SUPERS and what a super should feel like just an off topic subject.
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3 RepliesI couldnt disagree more. Bungie has been very very careful with the ban hammer over the last year. I for one was sick of always using the EP shotty, and TBH I do not think this nerf killed the gun. I think its pretty fair. Im excited too maybe start using some fusion rifles again. Also , you must remember it was initially made too be a heavy weapon. Meaning it was too be the hardest hitting weapon in your arsenal. It should not out dmg heavy weapons as an energy weapon. I dont enjoy one phasing/shotting bosses either. Nightfalls and strikes lost any challenge due too that shotgun In particular. I also think itll benefit gambit and solo players going against 4 stacks that are all abusing that weapon. All and all I love that they nerfed that shit. Good riddence, lmao doubt it. Itll still be top teir
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6 RepliesEdited by manmythlegend1: 11/28/2018 3:18:26 PMI disagree. Ikelos had a good run, it was fun while it lasted, but i'm ready to stop shotgunning every boss in the knees/face/gross puss filled sores. Besides, it still works in every shotgun-able encounter almost as well as it used to. So for those who get stuck in their ways and don't want to change, they didn't nerf it into oblivion. They just turned it down a notch. If they were to do what you are suggesting, and buff every other shotgun, and/or coming up with new perks for shotguns then you are just adding more ways to shotgun every boss. Which is a lot of effort for very little payoff as the effort required to do that within bungie (designing, programming, designing, adjusting, etc.) would be better spent creating newer, different ways to play.
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5 RepliesI believe the answer is all too easy to understand, regardless of if you agree. The effort level for toning down one perk versus buffing all others and coming up with more. Im sure the game studio doesn’t have people just sitting around. There working on D3, future expansions, etc. they don’t have the time to completely overhaul shotguns or all special weapons. Personally I loved ikelos, but when one weapon dominates all dps based activities, that’s not good.
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2 RepliesI'm impressed with your post even though i think it was a needed nerf because you actually put together an argument above asking for a refund because F bungie... If more people could make more posts like this, player feedback would probably get more done. It was becoming a raid requirement like Sleeper or Gally back in D1 which started the issue. It was OP, and you cannot bring dozens of other weapons up to it's damage level, and it was starting to get abused so it got nerfed. Same with every other great gun in Destiny. Thorn, TLW, 1000 Yard Stare. Something is good, so people abuse it. Thus why we end up getting great weapons nerfed. I do think things are headed in the right direction though, just looking at some of the new exotics coming and new activities. Haven't played yet, but we shall see how things unfold in the next few days.
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1 ReplyEdited by diaboliC NOR: 11/28/2018 9:51:37 AMIf you are a gamer, not just a D1 day one player. If you truly are a unbiased gamer wanting the best game possible. Nerfs are a essential part of any game, period. Wonder how LoL would be without nerfs.. WoW.. Dota.. etc etc etc etc etc... All mulitplayer mmorpg(ish), and moba games have constant nerfs and buffs going on, every month. Heck even strategy games.
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Edited by CannyJack: 11/28/2018 3:57:56 PMPersonally, I'm fine with it. I've only had the gun for about 3 weeks, and it's still far-and-away the best special weapon in PVE. It's not the man it used to be, of course. The real issue is that Bungie always sees one game mode's problem as the entire game's problem, when it very much isn't. The IKELOS nerf comes straight from Gambit, because we've trivialized the problem of melting the Primeval. What was supposed to be a tough back and forth is now a 2-3 second problem -- the Primevals in Gambit are easier to kill than the High-Value Targets. What Bungie needs to do is (as very savvy people have said elsewhere) is step away from DPS-check mentality -- because a) DPS checks are mindlessly easy, and b) we can ALWAYS figure out how to win a DPS check -- and plan the climactic fights from a different mindset entirely.
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1 Replythey didn't nerf ikelos they nerfed trench barrel to balance it into the game because the park is now a random role for year 2 weapons...
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3 RepliesIn the vidoc, a kinetic shotgun had trench barrel so that perk may be spreading to other shotguns. They also tweaked the perk to also increase reload speed. The ikelos shotgun in its previous state had higher dps potential that every other weapon (including exotics) in the game as a legendary shotgun. Legendary weapons shouldnt be that strong, and a weapon should bot dominate a slot that hard. Its a reasonable nerf and possibly we may start seeing it on other shotguns.
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2 RepliesYour argument seems to be that other guns need buffed to the point of being able to compete with the shotgun? It's far easier to nerf one gun than alter all the rest.
