So let me get this straight. Are you agreeing with this quote you posted? [quote]In my opinion Bungie made a critical error in switching to the new weapon system in that they decided to combine that with not allowing us to progress with endgame rewards.[/quote] Because you fought every single one on this forum prior to D2 sticking to your guns that you thought the load outs for D2 were the best for this game and better then D1. So am I correct that you changed your mind?

The biggest flaw is there is little middle ground. In D1 we had weak + medium + heavy. D2 is weak + weak + medium or heavy (and even heavy feels weaker). It doesn't feel like there are enough shielded enemies to warrant a weapon slot devoted to taking these rare enemies down. And we're still carrying D1 levels of heavy. Seriously? I can only carry shotgun ammo in the teens? 5-6 rockets? With ammo being scarce and dps potential being limited, shouldn't we at least be able to hold 15-20 rockets and 30-50 shotgun ammo?

A gears of War style weapon setup would cool if it was tweaked for destiny. Two primaries( like we have now with kinetic and energy) and two power weapon slots( a sniper and sword for ex.) or one power weapon and a Melee weapon. I think it would make pve a whole lot more fun. As for pvp you would only get power ammo for the power weapon you currently have drawn or the last one you drew. If you pick up power ammo and you haven't drawn either of your power weapons yet in that match your ammo could go to the next power weapon you switch to. You could switch weapon swapping to the d-pad and you could hold the now freed up triangle or Y button to open up an emote wheel then select an emote with the d-pad or joystick. Feel free to change or expand upon.

The fatal flaw is that it takes away our feeling of power. Having two primary weapons is redundant and boring. Shielded enemies simply don't occur often enough to warrant their own weapon slot. I don't really have a lot to say that others haven't already said but suffice it to say that I almost [i]hate[/i] Destiny 2. I say [i]almost[/i] intentionally here because a bad Destiny is still a pretty good game and better than most. I truly can't believe how unfulfilling this game is, how boring and pointless gear is and how laughably bad crucible has become. I don't wish ill on anyone from Bungie but they really shit the bed on this one and heads are going to roll because of it.

I’ve been saying this exact thing since beta. There is nothing to chase, and playing for “stickers” isn’t fun for me. I’ve done everything I want to do in D2. There is nothing in the game that can grow my character, so I’m not grinding anymore. In fact, I’m not playing for myself at all anymore. Had a buddy drag me out of Wolfenstein last night because he needed a Nightfall. We did it and I logged off and went back to Wolfenstein. Faction rallies? Couldn’t care less. The rewards are junk, because everything is junk. IB? Won’t be doing that either, not even for friends. Not a PvP fan anyway, and any incentive I had to do it was leveled out in this marvelously “perfect balanced” paradigm of boredom we currently have. For this PvE-centric player, D2 is an okay standalone game with no replay value. Once you play through the campaign a couple of times it’s time to move on to other games. There is no reason to hang around in this stasis, waiting for the next patch or DLC to do [i]something[/i] to make the game great again. As it is, D2 is dry wheat toast - it may feed you today, but it’s nothing to get excited about and goes stale pretty quickly.

They sacrificed too damn much trying to achieve PvP balance

Even if we went back to D1 system, which I don’t want, there is one underlying factor that hasn’t been considered: There is no point to leveling up. Light level is irrelevant. I mean geez. I feel like every level above the minimum the enemy get 10 levels harder. It’s like weapons don’t do any damage. Kinetic, energy or heavy. Damage numbers are so low. Some bosses and HVT feel like Pre nerf rockets mcdickface.

Is the double primary system that bad guys? Personally I find myself out of kinetic ammo all the time. I quite appreciate the energy primary weapon to pick up my slack.

Listen, I'm not trying to start petty drama but holy shit dude. You defended the ever living shit out of the new weapon loadout system. I understand opinions can change but holy hell you were dead set of the new weapon system being the greatest thing on the planet. I guess this is the part where I say I told you so ?

I'll be forthright and upfront: I've been a naysayer against the new system since it was announced at DRE. I completely understand your point but I don't think allowing weapons to progress beyond the cap is going to be the answer. The reason why is because then that just recreates the situation we had in D1/Y1 where players who didn't do endgame content could not hit the light level cap. I also have serious doubts that primary weapons can provide the surge of excitement and feel of being truly powerful in the way having ready access to shotguns, snipers, and FR's actually gives you. Primaries by definition are not going to be sexy. They're your primary weapon because the VAST majority of enemies you are going to be facing ARE NOT going to be majors or ultras or raid bosses. They're going to be tier 1 enemies like Thrall, Dregs, and Goblins which are relatively easy to demolish, even with a primary weapon. They're not designed to take down majors and ultras and no matter how much you progress the weapon, they're simply not designed to be your go-to weapon for majors and ultras. Because base damage is so low on primaries, any additional bonus damage you get for progressing your weapon is going to be relatively small in terms of actual increase in damage output. Lets say that by adding 1 total point in light value to your character, your going to increase your damage output by 10%. Lets also assume for ease of calculations that your primary does 100 damage. That 10% extra damage translates into an additional 10 damage. Now, lets assume that you put that same 10% damage bonus on a sniper rifle or shotgun that has a damage output of 1000 per shot. That 10% damage bonus turns into an increase in 100 damage per shot which is 10x the damage potential that you would get out of a primary. See my point here? Progression is not the issue IMO, although I would agree that the progression system in D2 seems to be largely meaningless other than gating certain content. I actually think Y1 provided the best template for rewards that we ever had in that you could get elemental primaries. These guns added bonus damage in some endgame content based on appropriate burn and had ZERO impact on PVP because the burn meant nothing. It was purely a PVE reward and did not effect PVP. But you can actually only have that kind of reward be meaningful in the D1 system since the status of elemental primaries has actually been REDUCED because of the way the new system works. IMO, in PVE, there is no such thing as a gamebreaking gun. Just a gun that is a lot of fun. They should be kickass and they should be hard to get like they were in Y1, but they should also be WORTH it in that they reduce your grind the way Y1 endgame guns did. That is what really made playing Destiny's endgame worth playing/replaying several times a week, and the removal of those kind of rewards also lead to the devaluation of endgame content in Y2/Y3, and relegated it to nothing more than a grind for cosmetics. I.E., a grind just for the sake of grinding. They had the formula right in Y1, whether it be by accident or by a sheer stroke of genius. Many of my friends who played D1 religiously decided not to carry on during Y2/Y3 because of the lack of elemental primaries and the ones that did decided not to carry on past TTK because we all saw that the endgame grind was ALREADY being devalued back then. It was just well hidden for most gamers. And when the new dual primary system was announced? Most of us lost interest at THAT moment. It's long past due that they simply just separate PVE from PVP at this point. I've already made several posts on HOW they could do it without destroying the game but as we see here, Bungie keeps trying to reinvent the wheel in order to avoid doing what they should have done in the first place. And the results? Square wheels...

Did you really ever believe there was an actual benefit to two primary weapons? It was a scam from the get go. They just wanted to get rid of special weapons for PvP and spun this garbage as if this was somehow a benefit to players.

Yup. Lumping shotguns, snipers, fusions, rocket launchers, and swords into 1 ammo slot while removing heavy synths and the high reserve ammo capacity was a bad move. Not to mention the permanent trickle modifier... There's really nothing fun about shooting and reloading for 15 minutes through a strike, or for any PvE content for that matter.

I agree with this. For example, sniple rifles in the power weapon slot just don't feel right. And maybe this is just my perception, but they feel weak in the power weapon slot. Which is saying a lot considering we had legendary sniper rifles in D1 that hit like mack truck. I will say this, the new weapon system has definitely changed how I play but I pretty much don't change my weapon set up; scout or auto rifle, mida mini and a sword. Grenade launchers need a serious buff. I dont use rocket launchers because I tend blow my self up more than I care to admit. (I am completely serious here.)Which is why I loved heavy machine guns in D1 but they were wiped from D2, why? In D1 at least I felt there times where it was appropriate to swap my setup. In D2, not so much. Im still enjoying D2 for what it is but I can definitely acknowledge its flaws.

They’ve taken away cheese spots (for the better but in line with their philosophy), neutered exotics, made static legendary perks, removed elemental primaries, removed armor that increased melee speed or extra damage to minions of the darkness (among so much more), added timers, removed weapons and armor that increased super regeneration time, removed tracking on rockets, made Sunshot the only true firefly weapon. All of these go hand-in-hand with the feeling of power that you’re longing for. It’s gone, and the weapon system you’re referring to is but one grape on the vine. This shit is bland. Honestly I thought Prestige mode was just for fun; I thought it was simply a challenge to engage in to test our abilities. I didn’t and don’t expect anything unique or powerful from it. Reason being is because it didn’t exist in D1 (Prestige Nightfalls). How did we all manage so long without it? That question will lead you to quite a few answers.

I don’t like the current weapon system and we’ve got pvp balance to blame for that. This conversation is old though. They will never change it back; hell, they won’t even man the F up and admit it was a poor design choice. Just let them have their make believe E-sport. There’s a lot of waaaaaay better games on the horizon. I will definitely be saying goodbye.

Sols, I️ ran the regular NF last night with the changing burns. In my heavy slot was a void sniper. I️ emptied two clips into a yellow bar and it only took it to 1/3 health. I️ hear you man. I️ have a gun and throw Nova Bombs and can teleport across short distances, but killing enemies is such a freaking chore that it isn’t even worth it most of the time. Frick.

The fatal flaw was the moment someone thought of the moronic idea. 2 primaries = boring!

So if we were over leveled for an activity with gear that provided some enemy specific damage buff, this new system would be fine? 1000000000% still disagree. Even then we wouldn't be doing the DPS that we did in D1. All you've done is put a bandaid on the problem. Bosses would be "less" spongey and we'd still be pigeonholed into only one real DPS weapon with no ammo synths. Hard pass.

Lore wise, have bungie ever explained how or why guardians went from the primary/secondary/heavy system to the kinetic/energy/power system? How about how we felt powerful taking on Gods, children of Gods etc yet feel barely effective against a terrestrial threat of a warring people?