Note: I intended to make this thread about all 9 subclasses, but this thread ended up being too long, so I only had enough space to discuss one class per thread.
Hunters:
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/186886586/0/0
Titans:
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/186899380/0/0
[b][u]SUNSINGERS[/u][/b]
[spoiler][b]Strengths:[/b]
-Suppression. With arguably the best grenade in the game (lightning grenades are pretty damn good too), Sunsingers have an amazing ability to suppress enemy fire by tossing a Firebolt paired with Touch of Flame and Viking Funeral. Most players will not risk returning fire while they are burning, and so this gives the Sunsinger precious time to recover health, Revive teammates, capture objectives, etc.
-Defense. Although a very controversial ability, flame shield remains (at least in my opinion) the king of melee abilities. Without even having to kill the opponent, an overshield is granted [i]and[/i] the target burns over time. Throw in the fact that the melee itself has the highest range in the game (as do all warlock melees), and it becomes even more deadly.
-Self Resurrection. Another controversial ability. This ability can cripple an enemy team when used correctly. It is best used right after the enemy uses [i]their[/i] super. For example, A titan uses Fist of Havoc to kill a Sunsinger. Heavy ammo is inbound in 10 seconds. The warlock activates Radiance and revives, before killing the titan and claiming the heavy ammo. This is a great example of using Radiance to outsmart an opponent. Since, if the warlock had used [i]Radiant Skin[/i] instead, the titan would have still killed him anyways with FoH. Using Radiance in this manner essentially causes the enemy to "waste" their super.
[b]Weaknesses[/b]
-God awful mobility. Easily the worst agility in the game. Glide is TRASH. This class has decent movement if you max out the agility and use focused burst, but other than that, it is slow as hell. Easily outclassed by lift and double/triple jump.
-Very weak super. Listen, to understand a Sunsinger, you have to understand that this subclass is not built around its super. It is a class that completely dominates the passive game, (Although the same could be said for Nightstalkers), while sacrificing its super. Not only is it incredibly easy to [i]singlehandedly[/i] wreck a Sunsinger, but the offensive capabilities are among the weaker, when compared to other supers. Its strongest weapon is the scorch melee, which becomes a 1HKO while Radiance is active. Which brings me to some "tips" to get around what appears to be a lack of offensive capabilities.
Tips:
1. Play with maximum discipline and strength, with ZERO intellect. Trust me, you won't need it. Sunsinger is my favorite class in the game, and this is how I play. You'll get a grenade and a flame shield every 25 seconds. And when you finally do activate your super, your abilities will recharge MUCH faster.
2. Use Claws of Ahamkara. Typically you'll only get one "free" melee kill with your super. This is usually because your strength won't be high enough for another flame shield to charge by the time radiance runs out. But if you use these bad boys, you get [i]two[/i] 1HKO melees.
3. Radiant Skin: The Ram & Apotheosis Veil. Both of these helmets make Radiant Skin an absolute monster. With a solar chest piece, max armor, and the Ram, Radiant Skin will be powerful enough to survive a Golden Gun shot, with a sliver of health remaining. Not to mention, you can STILL get a flame shield on top of this to provide even [i]more[/i] armor. As for Apotheosis Veil, it heals you, AND refills your melee and grenade. So in the best scenario, you throw a grenade, and get sniped (body shot) in the process. The enemy is burning from your grenade and you go Radiant Skin from behind cover. You now charge out with full health, while they are (probably fleeing) on the brink of death from your previous grenade.
Final Verdict: Strong passive play, super highly situational and mostly irrelevant.[/spoiler]
[b][u]VOIDWALKERS[/u][/b]
[spoiler][b]Strengths[/b]
-Fastest warlock class. With maximum agility, paired with blink, surge, and MIDA, this subclass is capable of rivaling a hunter's agility. It is the only warlock class capable of doing this. For players who like to use the tactic known as "rushing," the Voidwalker subclass is perfect.
-Anti-camp grenades. You probably know them as Axion Bolts. Absolutely perfect for that scumbag that hides in a corner with a shotgun. Or that sniper sitting in a bush in the back of the map on [i]Shores of Time.[/i] If that description made you want to vomit, no worries. Just chuck one of these bad boys at them at let your gun fly. 9 times out of 10, they will start running, because they know if you don't kill them, [i]the Axion Bolt will.[/i] These things WILL force enemies to move, unless they have the stones to purposely take a grenade to the face, which they typically don't.
-Life Steal/RAM, Recovery. Oh. My. Gosh. Best exotic ever. Although not quite as powerful as the year 1 version, it still gets the job done like no other. Again, for you dirty rushers out there (I see you hiding that Conspiracy Theory!) Voidwalker is amazing. Nothing is more hilarious than beating someone down with your bare hands. It goes, you're chasing them down, they shoot, you punch, you heal, you punch [i]again[/i], laughter ensues. No, but really, all jokes aside, the Ram is an absolute must if you're going to use this class. The ability to instantly regenerate [i]on hit, not kill,[/i] is invaluable in any situation. Warlocks are known for their high recovery, which is perfect for when you find yourself rushing headfirst into the enemy spawn and quickly have to scramble for cover.
-Nova Bomb. One of only 2 "1 shot" Supers. I don't really consider Shadowshot a "1 shot" since it requires a bit more aim, and even then isn't a guaranteed kill. I digress, Nova Bomb, like Fist of Havoc, is the ultimate trump card. Sunbreakers, Bladedancers, Golden Guns. Doesn't matter. If you want them dead, they're dead, end of story.
[b]Weaknesses[/b]
-Grenades and melee lack killing power. None of the Voidwalker grenades are 1 hit kills. Unlike the fusion, magnetic, flux, and trip mine grenades, Voidwalker grenades are not meant to kill. They are meant to force enemy movement. As for energy drain, it really is not all that special. Outside of life steal, it's pretty lackluster. Unlike backstab, scorch, sunstrike, thunderstrike, or even smoke...it really is just a simple smack to the face. Which is why I HIGHLY recommend using the Ram with this subclass.
Tips: Maximize Intellect and Discipline. Wear the Voidfang Vestments or the Ram. Run max agility and recovery with minimum armor and blink or focused burst. For grenades, use axion bolts with annihilate and vortex mastery. Vortex is also useful on Nova Bomb as well, since you're using Vortex Mastery anyways. Strength is basically useless, since Ram gives you infinite life steals anyways.
Final Verdict: Strong aggressive play. Shutdown super. Great for breaking up enemy campfires in the backs of maps.[/spoiler]
[b][u]STORMCALLERS[/u][/b]
[spoiler][b]Strengths[/b]
-Crowd Control. Arguably the best crowd control subclass in the game. Challenged only by Nightstalkers in this category. The final perk for this subclass allows the Stormcaller to recharge its melee with grenade kills, and vice versa. Perfect for large groups of weak enemies. Throw in the chaining power of Stormtrance, and this class becomes a 1 man army.
-Thunderstrike's absurd range. I honestly believe Bungie was trolling with this one. Warlocks already had the best melee range in the game, but Bungie decided to give Stormcallers a perk that granted even [i]more melee range.[/i] Why they did this, I'll never know, but it is freaking ridiculous. This melee attack literally has more range than a shotgun. Pair this with the "feedback" perk, and it basically becomes a guaranteed kill after being hit by an enemy melee attack.
-Landfall/Transcendence. Smiting your enemies from the heavens. At least that's what it feels like. Not only can you kill anyone directly beneath your or fairly close to you, but even [i]if[/i] they survive, they'll be blinded by your godly power. Not only that, but filling yourself with lightning instantly heals your health to full, AND nearly doubles the duration of your super, AND makes it drain slower. Throw in the Impossible Machines and you can have all of this, plus teleportation. (Well damn, even I have trouble believing this class isn't op after reading that.)
[b]Weaknesses[/b]
-Grenades are garbage. Plain and simple. Pulse grenade has horrendous range and can easily be avoided. The storm grenade covers a large area, but activates so slowly that it can, again, be easily avoided. And Arcbolt grenades function well, but do so little damage (after Bungie nerfed them) that they have become a joke among Stormcallers and Bladedancers. So basically, you can pretty much throw grenades out of your playbook if you're running Stormcaller. The only time they're going to kill someone is if they're already hurt by someone else. (Note that in pve they work just fine, as I mentioned early when discussing crowd control.)
-Poor agility, defense, and recovery skills. As I mentioned earlier in the Sunsinger section, glide is garbage, period. Although Bungie was merciful enough to provide a pseudo-blink while in Stormtrance, even Ionic Blink drains a significant amount of super energy with each use. In addition, none of the melee or super perks grant overshields or health regeneration on kills or hits. This means that transcendence is literally your only way to heal yourself.[/spoiler]
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Bump. Now they know the struggle Don't nerf us pls
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1 ReplyThanks kiddo, I main warlock myself and I've learnt even more stuff, even tho I'm lvl 40!! XD but still this I a great post, so what those guys said down der, HIRE THIS KID! [spoiler]BUMP BUMP BUMP[/spoiler]
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Edited by SilverwindNarga: 1/20/2016 12:15:57 PMCannot agree more with stormcaller gernades. They are given two of the worst grenades the arc subclass's have and storm grenade while in my opinion great for pve when i played pvp it was just garbage. Edit: Btw Our long super is well justified by the fact that our grenades are terrible. At least other class's have decent ones
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1 ReplyNice, definitely gonna be giving your other posts a read.
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1 ReplyGreat thread and very nice breakdown of all three classes. The only thing you need to do is delete the weakness section. We need to make sure titans and hunters keep thinking warlocks don't have any weaknesses. The crucible is a mind game you know.
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1 ReplyHoly hell I can't bump this enough! This was amazing to read! Going to go check out the other articles! You sir have won the internet for today.
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2 RepliesBungee, hire this guy ASAP. [spoiler]No, seriously. This was gold. [/spoiler] Necrobump.
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1 ReplyGood collection of info. The issue, however, is most of the "nerf everything" idiots can't see the logic. You can explain all you want, but until the thing they want is murdered and buried, they will go non stop... [spoiler]Besides, most of the haters on warlocks are just mad that we are the only class that has been almost perfectly balanced from the start. No exploit glitching, no guaranteed OHK 20ft range grenades, no instant activation panic button (NB takes time to toss vs instant FoH). Honestly, I don't recall a major nerf on any warlock sub. People just can't accept that...[/spoiler]
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1 ReplyThx finally someone with reasonable input on the subclasses! Bump
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4 RepliesOh, Hunter - hard mode Warlock/Titan - normal mode
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Pretty much spot on friend. as a warlock main, I would reccomend this to anyone wanting to learn more about the class.
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1 ReplyThe melee doesn't 1 hit you. This is obviously coming from someone who wants hunter supremacy.
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3 RepliesEdited by Renefrere: 1/20/2016 8:48:38 AMI think you are wrong about the super because one hit melee without scorch during radiance and spamming fire bolt grenades is pretty good. BTW you need to use your primary during the duration of the super it will complete garbage.
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BTW you can do a slower version of the titan skate with the second glide option and some ok timing.
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5 RepliesEdited by m00ninite: 1/18/2016 3:55:36 PMAs a Voidwalker main I just want to disagree with The Ram being your praised exotic. It's great for PvE so you can have all 3 melee modifiers at once, and always have a Life Steal to save you, but I don't find it to be quite as strong for PvP. Voidfang Vestments are my go-to for improved Axion harassing, while allowing me to stack Int/Str. Paired with Soul Rip and I'm getting Nova Bombs quite quickly. Also, Nothing Manacles Scatter grenades CAN OHK if the enemy doesn't immediately move. Also, even with Voidfang, how dare you not mention BLOOM.
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1 ReplyNice helpful post
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Nice helpful post
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I stopped reading last tuesday
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1 ReplyGood post!!
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1 Reply
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7 RepliesI intend on making hunter and titan threads as well. A common problem I see is people complaining about a certain class, when they haven't even played it before and don't understand how it works. That's why I made this thread, so people could potentially understand the role each subclass plays in combat.
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2 RepliesBump Bungie hire this man good lord what you just said was beautiful lol I hope you do more of these for titans and hunters
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2 RepliesEdited by J Stevensontown: 1/17/2016 3:12:41 PMI totally respect your input, experience, and feedback on the subclasses, especially because you have credibility, experience, and you play the game currently. All subclasses definitely have pros and cons. I personally think all subclass abilities and supers are exactly where they need to be excluding the following; - all supers that are not instantly used, should have the same duration, and armor, excluding sunsingers, because their ability is tanking more damage through the shield of the Sun, they don't get any special cross map projectiles or huge explosive multi kill abilities. - storm callers landfall should not instantly destroy a defender bubble, and although there's a perk to increase its durability, it's still a little bit too long, and the range is still a little bit too long. When you think about the Firebolt grenade, after it burns its max amount of time, it doesn't kill the enemy. Lightning grenade, axion bolt, tripmine, even flashbang and suppressor nades, they don't kill an enemy unless they're absolutely direct hits or the enemy is weak, but even then I'm skeptical. All of these grenades reduce the enemy's health to absolute, Firebolt kind of does the same thing except overtime, and prevents regeneration. The only thing with fire bolt, is it tracks and can hit multiple targets, just like other nades, but it's a little more effective, & there's not that much range on it either. Another thing about Firebolt, is that the Sun singer is using 2 perks out of the skill tree aside from the grenade branch to make that grenade as effective as possible. - we all know flame shield is super effective, it's still not a 10 foot lightning melee. But when you think about The Sun singer not having any insta kill super other than the melee while you're in radiant skin or fireborn and it's charged, The Sun singers not really that overpowered. No insta kill abilities, and when you sell res people are going to shotgun or snipe you down like nothing. This super is very manageable although it still very effective when used properly. Again, I think the supers are all where they need to be, except Stormcaller needs just a little bit of tweaking
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Bump.