First I can upgrade exotics, but not legendaries. Then I can upgade both. Then I can't upgrade legendaries OR exotics... except for some.
I have had to re-level every exotic I had. Then I didn't have to re-level them at all. Now I will have to re-level the select few you let me keep. Again.
Please don't get me started on the absurd number of currencies I've had to deal with over the course of the last year.
I know you're new to this style of game and you've been figuring this out as you go, but it's been frustrating to have the progression systems change so much each time. With the first two expansions I did my best to be prepared, but with HOW I basically stopped after my characters hit 34 because I didn't want to spend hours upon hours of my life chasing things that wouldn't matter when the next expansion system.
And frankly, it was a dick move to add a system for upgrading legendaries and then turn around and take all of them away with the next DLC. It would've been better if you'd never introduced etheric light at all.
Of course things will change over the course of a game with this sort of lifespan, but not so drastically or so often. Pick a system and stick with it so the players can consistently have a general idea of how Destiny works.
Please?
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#Destiny
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276 RepliesEdited by Charlemagne: 8/21/2015 10:26:27 PMThe following is all my opinion and doesn't reflect upon the opinions of other Mentors, Ninjas, or Bungie employees. I know what you mean. The amount of changes we've been seeing has been a bit staggering at times. Currencies changes, progression changes, ascending, etc. However, in many ways, that's our fault (I mean that as a compliment, oddly enough). We, the fans and community, have asked for changes to things that weren't working. We gave our feedback and they listened. The things that weren't needed in the game were tweaked or removed and I think Destiny is in a much better place than what it was when it launched. The Taken King seems to be a major step in the right direction. Rather than incorporating everything that can't properly be balanced without massive changes, they made what I think was the good (but tough) decision to wipe the board clean (for the most part) and let us move on from the issues that were present in Year One. Have you noticed that there so far hasn't really been anything new for currencies other than things that are replacing older versions? I think that's a good thing, but I also think that this is in preparation for all the following months that are to come. As for relevancy of weapons and armour, I hate to say it, but this isn't anything new. Many games that are like Destiny make it so new gear is better than old gear, mainly to give the player things to do. Think about it. Some players aren't getting TTK, but they still have Destiny. If you haven't gotten an expansion, you'll know that Bungie still allows players to get new gear. This allows for them to keep up with the players who did get the expansions. However, I like that they allowed us to upgrade Legendaries for this expansion since it made it so there wasn't just a handful of armour and weapons to select from. TTK doesn't need to do this since they're adding in a massive armoury and arsenal to the game. Right now it may seem like it sucks to not get to bring over some of your favourite weapons, but I'm 100% sure you'll find something equal or better for you in the coming expansion/update. I was talking to a few people about Gjallarhorn not making the full transition in TTK. We decided that this was definitely a good thing. Look at the game right now. How many bosses are bullet sponges? Sure, many have interesting features to them that spice up the gameplay, but their core aspect is being able to take massive amounts of damage. Why? I think it's because Gjallarhorn is everyone's answer to them. We can literally obliterate bosses in a few magazines with that weapon. Having more tactical battles is useless when you have something that can just track them down and do huge blows. How many of us just camp/cheese bosses with Gjallarhorn, Black Hammer, and/or Ice Breaker? Most of us, probably. We're literally taking out the challenge and fun in the game since we want things to be faster to get the randomised rewards. [b]Edit 3:[/b] I'd like to clarify that I don't mean to blame Gjallarhorn as the sole reason for the boss design, just that its "removal from the equation" frees up something that severely changes the way we play the game. It allows developers to not have to worry so much about a weapon that can defeat bosses in seconds. I'd also like to make it clear that I am, in no way, blaming players. Taking the most effective method to destroy something to get your reward makes sense. However, in the coming paragraph, I explain how that method (cheesing) isn't really necessary anymore due to the subtraction of how random loot drops have been. Sorry about any confusion. What Bungie seems to be doing is answering both issues at once. Leave behind all the flawed mechanics and items to allow for new and better ones to take their place. Less randomness to the loot, no singular go-to weapon for a given situation, and more tactically to the game's set up. Trust me, I get it. It sucks waiting and looking at all the flaws at once gives you a certain perspective on things, especially when you know what's to come. But if you look at everything individually or everything chronologically, the game has been making tons of steps in the right direction. Bungie has been very clear from the beginning that the game you start up will not be the same game in the end. The balance, progression, and so many other things are all subject to change. That is how a living shared-world game works. It's like a MMO in those respects, but it's also like a traditional FPS when it comes to balance and such. Bungie is striving hard to make Destiny great, as I'm sure you can all tell, but that also takes time. Without some drastic changes, this game would be very different and I think a lot of people wouldn't be as happy with it, if at all. It's still thriving due to Bungie's commitment to giving the best overall experience they can. I suggest we all wait for The Taken King to come out and play it a good deal before judging it. Ask yourselves a few questions: Do I need the gear I currently have to have fun? Am I playing this game for fun or for gear? Am I currently having fun? Your enjoyment is the most important thing. If you think TTK is going to be a blast and that you're going to have a great time, well, I'll see you star side. If you don't, that's absolutely fine as well. Take your time to decide. Wait for reviews. Talk to others who've played it. Read through forums. You don't have to decide now. Edit: Thank you for the great conversation, everyone. I'm really enjoying discussing hearing your opinions. I'm going to make a thread listing all the confirmed weapons and armour that are and aren't fully transferring over. I'll provide a link when it's ready. Edit 2: Here's the link: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/148253921/0/0
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10 RepliesBungie: Which weapons did we spend time building models for that no one uses ? ( cause they sucked or we nerfed them) *makes list Sweet as - these guns now get year 2 versions that people will grind up cause we now changed white shading to black. Which weapons did people spend hour upon hour grinding for cause they were fun to use, looked cool, or flat out wrecked? *makes list Sweet as - these weapons are now rendered useless (except when you want to rock out on earth patrol for the 675th hour with you fatebringer popping level 2 dregs) [spoiler]become legend[/spoiler] [spoiler]but only in a manner that we see fit, and that slots nicely into our funding model[/spoiler]
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Well spoken.
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7 RepliesEdited by Foxy: 8/21/2015 7:14:52 AMI fully agree with you. It just seemslike Bungie has no idea where they want to go with this game. It would have been fine if they were only improving it...but quite frankly, it just seems that they keep changing things that already work and making one step forward but two steps back. Yes, there are major changes to TTK that will make it better. There are great things coming, interesting guns and it looks like a story is coming. But in the light of recent events it seems that Bungie is introducing more grinding and changing things that work. Why remove material exchange? And make us farm more? Why remove etheric light and ascension system? It was perfectly fine and I would have been happy if there were ascension 2.0 year 2 and if legendaries from year 1 were left behind. But infusion seems like a vastly inferior system, needing to get rid of BETTER gear to upgrade lower. You like that raid weapon you got? Well too bad, you will need to dismantle it if you want to upgrade that forge suros weapon and grind for it again. I´m not crying over not being able to use Gjallarhorn. But I´m enjoing other various exotics as well. Why? Because they offer a unique playstyle and they are FUN. And why should we restrict fun only to year 1 content? It simply makes no sense. Fine nerf Gjally I don´t care, but let me use my exotics in Year 2 content.I like them, they give me a change of pace. I don´t use them because they´re OP.It´s because they give me a fresh change of experience. And exotics are the pinnacle of Destiny, they were always upgradeable even if vog weapons stayed at 300....why change it now? Plus...relevelling again. Sure, I know most of people will say "you are getting a new gun, relevell it"...but really, IF all exotics carried over we wouldn´t have to do this at all and focus on new weapons. Why meddle with old exotics and try to give them some new perks when they could work on new interesting exotics? Makes 0 sense again. It´s simply the fact that every 3-4 months, we have absolutely NO idea what´s going to happen with this game. There are constant changes and for me, that doesn´t justify playing this game. I´ve had a lot of fun but I won´t be playing a game that is getting overhauled every 3 months and I have no idea what to expect. And we´re not talking about good changes like adding something new to the game or keeping it fresh.These are changes that are overhauling the game every time and right now, instead of only adding new things we are being vastly restricted in what we are doing. Sure, we´re getting story, vault space, new balance in multiplayer etc....but I highly suspect that the story we are getting can in no way be compared to fallout or witcher or other games...vault space means nothing if guns are getting obsolete and pvp will still be unbalanced, just in other way. It pains me to say it because there are things about Destiny that I love very much, but there simply aren´t enough reasons for me to keep playing
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Edited by Willa: 8/24/2015 4:30:43 PMThis is how they select the levelling system for each DLC.
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I totally agree!! That's the root of the problem. Changing the rules and game constructs!!!
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Wouldn't you love to see the dartboard on the boardroom wall at Bungie HQ?
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I thought this was Console war material xD
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4 RepliesEdited by Safari Farnsy: 8/23/2015 1:35:45 AMHonestly [b]feels like amateur hour with the constant changes[/b].. [b]2/3's of Exotic weapons being booted from D2! Dam, isn't this just a repeat mistake from the TDB[/b] i.e. where we were forced to retrospectively upgrade Exotics. Now BUNGiE wants us to repeat this junk-archetype-misadventure (note lesson acknowledged by BUGiE but NOT learnt). Except his time we are offered less choice - in terms of what we've already earned Exotixwise. Potential upside is new experiences being offered along with the narrowed selection of Exotic weapons. FTRecord: [b]As a Player = I want to choose the between the weapons I have invested (time & effort) in &[/b] the new cool weapons avail from TTK! Really don't give two hoots to what other MMO's do.. If I'm [b]missing something in yr Vision BUNGiE, then go ahead & explain in the next next Livestram.. as in.. simply & authentically explain[/b]. Thanks! Otherwise it seems like yr evolving Destiny akin to Twin Peaks (TV show in the 90's where episodes appeared to be written on the fly)! This perceived approach is turning a decent amount of Players away from the game! [u]What would criticism be without a Way Forward?[/u] Suggested Solution - Story Board & Roadmap Destiny by utilising: * prototypes using selections of the real Community * scenarios * reuse digi-assets + features * Communications Plan (really take the time to think thru what & how you are presenting to millions globally) * etc.. [i]others feel free to add![/i] PRE-EDIT: yep, see there is possible capacity to buy ALL Blueprints in the future..
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2 RepliesAgreed, read this bungie you change your mind like a women
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2 Replies……(\__/) ……( o_o) …./”"”"”"”"”"”"\======░ /”"”"”"”"”"”"”"""”\ \_@_@_@_@_@_/
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6 RepliesEdited by VoxNovo: 8/21/2015 12:50:31 PMYou hit the nail on the head. This is a grinding game. We grind because we want things that others don't have. We grind because we want the best stuff. We grind to get ahead. We grind to have fun. But when things just become obsolete in 3 months, and when the rules of the game reverse course, you start to realize that it's not worth your time because nothing you do is going to matter once the next DLC drops. And that's a lot less fun.
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Edited by TomDR93: 8/24/2015 8:10:42 AMI think we can all agree that ascending exotics is [b]A LOT[/b] better than re-levelling them via Xur - wish he still brought armour re-levelling for better stats.
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4 RepliesI agree it would have been better if etheric light never existed, what the hell were they thinking? Then I realized that HoW was probably done by a separate design team while the TDB guys worked on TTK, and that the HOW design team had a VERY different view of how things should move forward than the TDB design team, with Deej simply relaying the word as is his job.
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I like that they tried different systems out. It drove a lot of discussion and we found out what works. Etheric light makes the game pretty easy since max level takes so little effort to reach. On the other hand, not being able to show anything for your efforts sucks. I think they hit a nice balance with charging legendary marks for a new version (with new perks) of some of the older pieces of gear that may have not had as much glory. It's guaranteed payoff for current effort without being too powerful.
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3 RepliesPersonally, I don't mind being part of the process. Bungie has shown a willingness to listen to the fans/gamers to find a balanced result, so it's a small price to pay in my mind.
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Bump. Watch this one get conveniently marked as "awaiting ninja justice" too....... Man, nerf 2.0 notes then, can't move any guns forward Cherry on top: an untold number of exotics won't go forward either and the ones that DO will cost more to RE upgrade than ever before Idk why but it bugs me even though i burned out on destiny a while back. I just want to see them make the right decisions so i can look fwd to destiny 2. If they get enough support, and they have been thus far, they will continue to make choices that are largely unpopular. I want to be able to choose which gun i want to use. Don't need to my hand held and told exactly what guns to use and how to play the game. I'm an adult, though my posts may come off childish just cause it can be fun at imes lol. happy hunting and i hope everyone is pleasantly surprised by TTK, the choices bungie made, and the actual CONTENT of this dlc. I really hope it's great. OP: completely agree. Just stick to a method that doesn't bother anyone. Allowing ascension doesn't force others to use old guns but it allows everyone the choice to use anything. PvP? It has done a fair amount of damage to the entire game but they're working it out slowly i think.
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This is why I gave up over a month ago. They don't seem to have a set concept and I'm kinda tired of starting over every few months.
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So true. What I am most annoyed about is the changes and more changes. Stick with one system and we will know where we stand. It appears that thinks are being "made up" as they go along without a thought out longer term plan.
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Well said!!!
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Well said sir!
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Great post.
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5 RepliesYep agreed. It's not a 10 year game. It's a 4 month game. Over and over again.
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There are just trying to get it right the other dlcs were pretty much test to see how it would work and who knows they might even change the new upgrade system if they don't like it
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1 ReplyBoom thats it. It really isnt the fact that things change . its the fact that they change, change back, change back again.blah blah.do it ,do it right and stick with it. How many things were in this game then done away with a few months later? Alot . to many add ons then take aways. Ascendant shards and energies. Then radiant . oonoo then Etheric light . made that seem so awesome and man had to grind and grind for it. Really dont think bungle will ever get it right. Perks that were maybe to good taken away and the almighty shank burn to overly impress us. Just to many stupid moves made by bungie. Love the game yet i hate it so.