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6/23/2015 10:06:19 PM
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I'd rather be surrounded by Confederate flags than Hammer & Sickle and Che Guevara flags and attire like liberals around my state wear and fly all the time. Both especially offend me, the former because I'm Russian Orthodox and the latter because I'm Hispanic. I think that we should either condemn all hate symbols equally or we should allow all equally. If progressives want to outlaw the Confederate flag, then they need to outlaw the Che shirts and Hammer & Sickles. But if they want to keep the Che shirts and Hammer & Sickles, then they need to tolerate the Confederate flag.
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[quote]they need to tolerate the Confederate flag.[/quote] >Implying traitors and violent insurrectionists should be tolerated. It's the 21st century. The South got beat, it isn't "rising again", and you people need to move on.
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You are making straw men and ignoring the point. It may work on others but it won't with me. Tolerating a symbol of insurrection and dissent is different from tolerating those things in themselves. And the context of my point was about hypocrisy, which you ignored. I only stated that they need to tolerate the symbols IF they are going to tolerate the Che Guevara and Hammer & Sickle memorabilia, also symbols of hatred, bigotry, and extremism. The point was that they need to be consistent. You cannot tolerate one detestable symbol but be intolerant of another. Otherwise you are a hypocrite. Either they are all tolerated equally or they are all abhorred equally. If ignorant hipsters and other misinformed, trendy progressives want to flaunt their cheap Che Guevara t-shirts and Hammer & Sickles then they need to accept and tolerate the Confederate flag and the fact that some people are going to fly them. The reasons are irrelevant. Even if it is about "rising again"--for most of which, it isn't.--that's irrelevant. 1st Amendment and free expression. As long as they don't actually resort to doing those things. Besides, if the same aforementioned trendies and hipster progressives can isolate their Che Guevara and Hammer & Sickle memorabilia from the atrocities, bigotry, and evilness associated with them, why aren't they willing to accept that Southerners can do the same with the Confederate flag? Ask any liberal why they wear a shirt emblazoned with a Cuban tyrant and they'll say because it symbolizes rebellion against the system. Nothing more, nothing less. Yet when a Southerner says that the Confederate flag means Southern pride and heritage to them, the liberals act dumbfounded. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Btw, I am not a Southerner. I am from California. The Bay Area in particular, which is why I hate liberalism so much.
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[quote]Tolerating a symbol of insurrection and dissent is different from tolerating those things in themselves.[/quote] No, it isn't. Southerners seem to have this romantic vision of the South "rising up" again, and it's clear from that belief that General Sherman didn't smack you people down hard enough the first time. [quote]1st Amendment and free expression. As long as they don't actually resort to doing those things. [/quote] Unfortunately for that train of "logic", that's not how the 1st Amendment works. If people are using something as a symbol to harm others, then it doesn't fall under "muh freedums". [quote] Yet when a Southerner says that the Confederate flag means Southern pride and heritage to them[/quote] Yeah, and that heritage isn't at all dangerous to the rights of other Americans. [quote]Btw, I am not a Southerner. I am from California. The Bay Area in particular, which is why I hate liberalism so much.[/quote] I don't care where you live.
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Yes it is. Until those Southerners waving their Confederate flags actually resort to rebelling against the nation again, there is a fine line between tolerating a symbol and tolerating the actions that the symbol may stand for. Again, unless every liberal and trendy hipster is willing to turn over the Hammer & Sickle and Che Guevara memorabilia on the same grounds as they're using to target the Confederate flag, they should remain silent otherwise they are hypocrites. And even if the South does have a silly romantic view of rising up again, who cares? You can't punish people for thought crimes or judge them or a symbol by what has not happened yet. Again, as long as they don't resort to doing those things, they have done no legal wrong. Flying a Confederate flag is not harming others. Being offended does not equate to being harmed. Unless you're willing to have all those rainbow LGBT flags taken down since same-sex marriage is offensive to many religious groups, don't target the Confederate flag because some find it offensive. Offense does not equal harm. A greater danger is forgetting about it. Those unaware of history are doomed to repeat it. Then I request you stop referring to me as a Southerner or at least indirectly suggesting such since I am not one but am a Californian.
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Yeah, because those can be found on every front yard.
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Soviet Union wasn't a hate group, it was a country and superpower to the world
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In other words, a hate group on the larger scale. Marxism at least in the Leninist form of the USSR was as detestable an ideology as White Supremacy/Eugenics via Naziism and the Confederacy, and thus should be equally hated, stigmatized, and loathed. They murdered millions of my Orthodox people in the gulags and I'll be happy when Lenin's Tomb is destroyed and trampled underfoot like the Confederate flag.
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Well said.
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No one is outlawing it. Quit lying
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I said "want" to outlaw. Read more carefully. And that's precisely why I am hesitant about supporting progressive movements, even if I agree with them. Because while the action itself may be good, the underlying desire and reasons may not be. And thus supporting it only reinforces whatever erroneous thinking and desires that they have.
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No. No one wants to outlaw them either. There is a huge difference from not wanting your government supporting a symbol that many detest vs attacking individual's rights. That's an absurd leap.
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You have something against glorious Hammer and Sickle, Capitalist pig?
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This is a very good point.
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That is a damn fine point. I'm fine with all of it going. Only idiots walk around with this stuff.
