So this is something that's been bothering me for quite some time, and yet people still somehow manage to believe quite the opposite to what I've found playing Destiny. But I don't see how they can refute my points, having experienced the problems firsthand, without providing some sort of support for their argument. The most I ever get out of them is "Have you even played a Titan" or "Just delete your Titan then" but I fail to see these as counter arguments moreso than just trolling.
I want Titans to be the powerhouse they are meant to be, not the laughable circle-dancing and Fist of Panic retards of the battlefield Bungie has come to portray them as, they are above the depictions Bungie has given them, but because of a lack of general agreements probably by biased players trying to keep their Warlucks or Huntards more competitive in PvP, my voice and many others get drowned in a sea of rampant naysayers. So I'm going to do my best to make the point clear: we are underpowered in almost every sense of the word, with few exceptions.
Here are my points and how they reflect on the game as it is now, along with several other objections to critical game decisions they've made with an obvious agenda towards aiding Warlucks over Hunters and especially Titans as a whole. I'm sure they'll disregard these allegations as falsehoods, but I call them as I see them, and I've seen much and more in Destiny.
[b]Stat Distribution:[/b] Inherently Hunters and Warlucks have the best stat distribution towards PvP (and arguably PvE depending on your playstyle,) but this isn't incredibly obvious until you start to realize how this affects gameplay. As a Titan, even with maximum Agility you are still slower than the competition and lack Blink in all shape and form. Which means your ability to close the gap for a Melee fight (our alleged forte,) is rendered almost impossible. Meaning our intended combat orientation to begin with is flawed. We cannot fight in melee range if we cannot outrun those among us who will kite our melee abilities and pick us off with their ranged abilities.
[b]Blink vs Shoulder Charge:[/b] To iterate further on the problem behind Blink, I'd simply like to suggest how Blink and Shoulder Charge work and their viability, starting with Blink. Sure, you could say there's a skill cap, but beyond that it's an incredible asset to your arsenal which allows you to close gaps or create them in massive bursts with high Agility. The efficiency of Blink is roughly 90% I'd say, meaning that it works as intended 90% of the time, either getting you into Shotgun 2-Shot range on your opponent or safely removing you from this treacherous range in a single rapid movement.
Shoulder Charge on the other hand, has about a 50%~60% efficiency, meaning approximately 55% of the time it's working as intended, you secured a kill. But if you realize Shoulder Charge not only makes you glue bright blue as a dead giveaway, but also forces you to run [i]straight into your enemy[/i], you realize it is single-handedly the most easily counterplayed ability in the game: just move the opposite direction it is coming. It works best with the [i]element of surprise[/i], but this element is taken away by how easily you are seen preparing this ability.
In short, it's hardly as efficient as Blink, and never will be as good because it can't trade with Shotguns. "A fist is better than any gun at close quarters." Just how close are we talking? Do I have to be kissing the guy I intend to kill for it to be considered close? If I'm generating a thunderclap with my movements, I'm likely moving with enough force to overcome the buckshot and kill the interloper with my body's excessive force. So with two supporting reasons as to why it should be better, why is it anything but lackluster and a poor choice to try and employ within Crucible?
[b]Exotic Selection:[/b] We've seen a very common trend in Hunters and Warlocks getting better selections for PvP than Titans in general. While you can argue the Feedback Fence or Eternal Warrior are choice for PvP, they're honestly directed more at PvE players if you check out the secondary and tertiary perks on them. Yet when you look at Nothing Manacles, The Ram and Purifier Robes, you see a very obvious agenda for making them the new PvP powerhouses. Even Hunters have been given particularly beneficial options.
But let's dig deeper, because it's not just about the kind of perks, but the amount of additional perks within the single perk for some pieces. Khepri's Sting for example, provides Stalker while also providing Backstab. While this isn't to say they act independently, they still obviously worked it to give them multiple boons in a single perk. The Ram is the biggest culprit, sitting on what I could call 3 or 3.5 perks: Increased Armor (enough to survive Shoulder Charge and Rockets in some cases,) as well as Life Steal, meaning they can couple it with Soul Rip or The Surge. But what's worse is they made the Life Steal [i]on hit[/i]; once again they've given Warlucks an easy-mode melee superiority against Titans.
Since when should Warlucks be able to outfight a Titan in melee combat? How does this even make sense to give to a Warluck? If anything it would've made more sense to give Titans Force Barrier on hit on one of their items, (maybe they intend to do this with No Backup Plans, would be great to see, but I doubt they'll give Titans the luxury treatment they give Warlucks,) but instead they give it to their precious gem, and they do what they can for Hunters without making them too competitive against Warlucks...
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#WarlockMasterRace
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8 RepliesAll I had to do was read the title and I already have lost any and all respect for you
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1 ReplyBtw, shoulder charge is lock on- so it's not as simple as moving to the side.
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2 RepliesWish there were actual stats instead of best guesses from the perspective of one guy..
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2 RepliesTitans have bubbles. I'm making one this week just because I felt left out. Also I've been shoulder charged mid-blink. Should er charging is extremely effective as long as you're smart about it and you don't charge someone with a shotgun... You have the armamentarium. This exotic is better than any Hunter exotic for pvp. You get two grenades, and your pvp grenades rock lightning does 122 per hit (that's a ton) and pulses quickly with a TON of range. Best pvp grenade in the game. You also have flashbang, magnetics, and the suppressor grenade. All of those are ideal pvp options. And [i]you can have two of them[/i]. Helm of St. And Feedback Fences also seem like solid choices. Bubble and Fist of Panic are great in pvp as well. You play it right you can avoid any super you want to with the bubble. Armor lets you kill bladedancers if you're careful, kill radiance dudes, waste 2 GG shots and them make sure you hide while the timer runs out and they only have 1 left, get on the other side of the bubble to survive nova Bomb, etc. Fist of havoc is just a nova Bomb with a bigger radius. It's good. Titans rock dude. Also for pve bubbles are essential
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3 RepliesTitans are always going to be left behind in everything, we get the worst exotics, perks and to top it off we try to make it up with our supers which stand no chance agains the other classes. Titans are only PvE with the worst possible loadout in terms of class build.
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I remember when I first switched on destiny back in early November and seeing the class selection, I expected the Titan to be a juggernaut, bullet sponge perfect for cqc, warlock to be support, long range play style and the hunter to be a dps with a mid range focus but wow, wasn't I surprised..
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2 RepliesAs a Titan I don't agree that we are that underpowered. yes in some areas we are awful, but in a few areas a Titan can do well. I will agree that of all the classes exotics ours can be the least effective
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U need to put this in the feedback section as well
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I main a titan and have all classes . Love the armor and make enemies fly . Supers suck . Anyways I do feel like Titans have the edge over Hunters in pve. And are pretty much tied with warlocks . But as far as pvp easily the worse class .
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2 RepliesEdited by SweetZombieJesus: 6/7/2015 6:31:19 PMI don't agree at all. My Titan was my last character I started, and I find them far more refined as a complete character then both the Warlock and Hunter. Hunter being my first character, I have a love for them, but warlocks as far as I'm concerned have very little to offer. They're slow, low health, void walker is fine for some situations, sunslinger has its perks, but overall defender titan has far better team oriented perks. Striker if used correctly in PvP is an unstoppable machine. Melee is the only real downside to a titan.
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total titan fanboy myself, though I admit to only really having tried voidwalker and gunslinger. still, as badly as titans need some sort of buff, you mention only the negatives of a titan, and completely ignore our greatest asset that, for me, is the main reason I play as a titan. Lightning Grenades, ideally with aftershocks and armamentarium. plus, titans are amazing in PVE, so you may want to specify that this post is exclusively about PVP.
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4 RepliesYou left out alot from what I can see so I wanna add some into what you said to give you a better idea that titans can be tanks you hope and wish they are. 1. You ignored the defender class, this is the titans bread and butter and If you run any raid people always make sure the have a titan for weapons or blessin. 2. Helm of inmost light is arguably the best titan helmet gives you unstoppable and death from above so you can choose between the other two remaining. 3. Helm of saint 14. We don't need to self rez to blind enemies, armour of light and a good shotgun you can destroy a mess of adds if your teammates are unfortunate enough to go down. 4. disentigrate, giving you 3 options, to be an orb making machine, or to give you insanely fast reload speed, or to be selfish. 5. The glass house, increasing the benefits of weapons and blessing even more (can't argue that point) 6. Striker, while I will admit there are certainly some issues it's a class of its own, idk why but when I use my warlock and hunter I feel they just take damage so easily and I get downed faster my just be me not being use to them. 7. Mk. 44 standasides you want a better shoulder charger try these bad boys out. 8. While I enjoy my titan i do agree with some of the things you say, maybe the new hammer subclass will gives the titan what he's been lacking cause it seems as though he's been ignored, the warlock got badass robes and helm, and the hunter got sweet gauntlets, and helm, yes the feedback fence gauntlets are ok but not enough for me to ditch the helms. I do personally feel the titan was kinda a thrown in the works class, warlock was a primary and so was a hunter, and then the devs said wait we need one more and they threw in the titan. Defender is the best way to go....pvp not so much, striker just because that bubble pops from anything. They should give the titan a helm that allows him to shoot through the bubble but at a cost...the bubble only last 15 seconds.
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8 RepliesYou understand the ACD/0 basically guarantees 1v1 melee fights unless you're fighting a sunsinger
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5 RepliesI started playing a Titan in the Beta. I quit playing a Titan about two weeks before HoW was released. I switched to Warlock. Why? I got tired of being "The Weakest Link"., and it is obvious Bungie didn't even want to include Titans in the game and only did because they wanted three classes to choose from. I mean, come on, every time you read something about the game before it was released you would hear "Space Magic"...seems like they really only wanted Warlocks to begin with. Just my $0.02
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1 ReplyIn the lore Warlocks melee is powerful cause it's void or solar powered..... Don't dispair tho fella. When the next dlc drops you might just get the solar class with a blink option.
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2 RepliesWith the ram helmet warlocks can have the upwards of 750 armor/hp. There is no denial that the warlock is the true tank class.
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As a titan....i [i]really[/i] [b]disapprove[/b] this armor.....
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22 Replies[b]Grenade Reliability/Consistency:[/b] As I'm sure you all know, Warlucks and Hunters have some amazing grenade choices, but none are so devastating as the Bolt archetype of grenades. With their ability to dish out consistent damage on multiple targets without any damage dropoff based on range from point of impact, they're able to rely on these things more heavily than Titans. Titans on the other hand have most of their abilities lumped into the '[i]Hit or Miss[/i]' style of use. This is to say that either they work 100% as you intended, or they completely fail and deal inconsequential amounts of damage. Flashbang and Suppressor, for instance, deal incredible damage up close but hardly scratch you after the first two or three feet. It's ridiculously weak and inconsistent. You could argue their crowd control capabilities are the niche, not the damage, but the truth is even their crowd control function is weakened beyond the three foot radius. Blinding becomes much less effective, though Suppressor remains much the same, though I haven't checked to see if the duration is less based on proximity. And the biggest point to make about Flashbangs is that they're hardly Flashbangs if what you see isn't blinding light, but the sea of ants you expect from your television when it gets fuzzy. Flashbangs don't generate this effect at all, [i]but you know what does?[/i] [b]EMP grenades[/b]. And if they were EMP grenades, it wouldn't matter how far away from it you were, it would affect you much the same way. I imagine the distance from a Flashbang they depict is enough to reduce the effects would be insufficient as well, but of course they don't care: they've been very careful not to give Titans anything that might actually give them some form of strength in Crucible without require obscene amounts of both luck AND skill. [b]Melee Reliability:[/b] Another prominent issue in the Titan class is, despite an express intent on making them melee oriented, we have the [b]worst[/b] lunge range in the game. We are cursed with T-Rex arms with savagely oversized claws that make it difficult to reach much farther than a foot apparently. And what's worse is we're not the only class who isn't supposed to have increased lunge range. Bungie conveniently gave Warlucks a 'force wave' that inadvertantly acts as a conduit to extend their lunge range beyond the reasonable expectation, and this is part of what already made Warlucks sufficient in melee combat. They could reach the Titan before the Titan could reach them, allowing them to get the first hit in and secure a victory in the first moments of battle. Throw on Flame Shield or The Ram's Exotic Perk, and you basically become a melee powerhouse with both the power of a Titan punch, the lunge range of a Blink Strike and the survivability of a Disintegrate all in one punch that doesn't even require the kill, just for you to land the punch. Is landing a melee really an acceptable condition for a shield or instant heal? It just isn't. [b]Experience vs Inexperience:[/b] The biggest problem I've encountered on the forums is the unwilling nature of players to admit when there is obvious imbalance. I prided myself on running three Titans, but I've come to the obvious conclusion that they're not good enough to warrant having three. So I started remaking some of them into Warlucks and Huntards, and I found out something really shocking. Despite my experience with Titans, I perform better with Huntards and Warlucks. It became incredibly obvious when on my first match as a Bladedancer they performed better. My grenades were consistent and devastating, my melee had the lunge capacity I so desired, and the mobility was superb. Without any sort of practice beyond PvE, I managed to slay the entire team with my super post-nerf, possibly due to Encore, elsewise it might have ended early. But this means that I didn't even need Hungering Blade to survive them, I ripped through them like I might carve a cake. And then with my Warluck, the same story. Grenades are much more consistent and stronger, my melee is reliable due to the more intuitive lunge range and the Supers are just twice as devastating as any of the Titan abilities. I wasn't surprised, it was the truth I'd always known for fact, and yet...
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#grammarisdead
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3 RepliesI have yet to see anyone rocking all 3 classes prefer a titan in pvp. To make the defender viable in pvp, they need to make the bubble unbreakable unless the titan dies. Otherwise it just cannot compete with better supers
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Edited by m00ninite: 6/12/2015 7:50:25 PMActually The Ram gives all 3 melee perks, lol. Life Steal on all hits (which is OP btw), "Super energy from melee kills" basically IS Soul Rip only better since it's all melee kills and not just Energy Drain kills, and then due to getting both of these you can spec into Surge, lol. Personally I prefer The Ram for PvE just so I can survive basically ANYTHING, but PvP it can really be an animal as well.
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2 RepliesI agree with some of your statements about the many advantages of other classes over the Titan in pvp however the Titan can still be an amazing class for both PvP or PVE. The reason the Titan can be such a good choice is because it has the best exotics in the game IMO. Armourmentarium lets us Titans have two grenades. One lightning grenade damages an enemy for 124 in one hit! Throwing these on a wall and knowing when to use them will take out over half of your opponents health making it an easy kill plus you have two to throw. The Titan's supers are my favorite in the game as well countering pretty much anything else in the game making it almost a guaranteed kill AT LEAST in PvP. For PVE the Titan clearly has the best exotics being the helm of the saint 14 and Ruin wings. Blinding your enemies or getting 5 of my ghorn rockets back from [b]ONE [/b] heavy ammo pack can't be beat by any other exotic in the game no debate. Without the exotics the Titan has they are easily the worst in the game lacking blink and a good melee however with exotics I believe the Titan is the most overpowered class for pvp when used by someone who knows what they are doing.
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Recovery is the true tanking stat. Bless the warlocks
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The Titan class easily has the best exotics. 2 grenades, blindey bubble, more heavy drops (when it works), More perks for first of havoc... the list goes on.
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I love my Titan in PvP. Shoulder charge is op when you know how to use it and fist of havoc is amazing when you use it at the right time. I've wiped an entire team in control because I saved my super and they were all capturing one point.