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8/7/2025 2:15:12 PM
17
I have tried weapon stat on both high and low end of the spectrum, a high stat does not really make much difference outside of a couple outlier combinations. Sure, getting more damage however small is always welcome, but after the most recent adjustment, it now no longer has a TTK shift by itself on any weapon that I am aware of (which does not require a perk activation on the weapon).
There were outlier combinations prior to the weapon stat, like PI 260 scouts or High Ground 390 pulses... High Ground was nerfed pretty hard, and while it now can still be a thing with the weapon stat bonuses, you never see it. 260 scouts can no longer 4 crit without PI and 390 cannot 2 burst without a buff (Elemental Honing for 1 weapon which if you ADS for too long, replaces your burst with a mini-rocket).
In EoF Week 1, there were a whole slew of weapons which were juicy, but now fall just a bit too short. In addition, there are so many ways of gaining DR or overshields, that there would be ways to work around weapons which could just make that TTK shift if you built into it and with good movement, its hard to make that TTK because its an optimal.
Without the weapon stat, now we have weapons which last season could be great against up to tier 8 or 9, but fall short on tier 10... and with everyone tier 10 now, a slight nudge in the weapon stat brings it back in line. This I feel was the intention for the weapon stat, not to make a flat shift in TTK for certain outlier weapons which only needed a nudge to shift the TTK (like 390 pulses, 180 HC and 260 scouts).
Now, I feel that I should not build into the weapon stat much at all, but more build into health, super and class... but thats just my current feeling. If I can get a decent weapon stat once I have health, super and class where I want, then great... otherwise its less of a concern. Choosing weapons which are already strong rather than ones which need a bump from the weapon stat will make for a more cohesive build than one relying on a TTK shift by massively building into the weapon stat.
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Edited by Zodleon: 8/8/2025 12:56:47 AMLightweight pulses, rapid pulses, 491 burst sidearms, and lightweight smgs all get ttk shifts with no perk requirements. Here's a post with a list of weapons the weapons stat changes the TTK of, it can currently shift the TTK of 9 weapon types, not accounting for exotic interactions. https://www.reddit.com/r/CrucibleGuidebook/s/zHexnoV19o Edit:weapon type correction
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Thanks for the post, I wasnt aware of some of these, and even after reducing the stat effect to 5% at maximum, they have a TTK shift (viewing numbers at 4.5% 2x surge). The ones that I tested, could no longer 2 burst (390 pulses) and 4 tap (260 scout) without having a perk activation (like precision instrument or high ground/elemental honing). I still dont know if for me, building so far into weapon stat is worth the tradeoff of having low stats in almost every category. Time will tell, and I will need to make a few builds when I get more t5 armor to have more stats at my disposal.
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In high level play im focusing health, it's too much of detriment to be one shot for as long as low health will leave you and in trials and comp where each life matters its a big deal. That's also the common consensus of other high KD players I've seen on the sub, play around and see what works for you, but for what it's worth that seems to be how things are shaking out rn.
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Yeah, any high weapons build that i could make, left me well under 100 health. So health regen feels like an eternity. I've always run at 100 recovery, so my timing to disengage, heal and challenge just wasn't there.
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Edited by Raiyu: 8/7/2025 5:40:13 PMAbsolute word vomit, except its coming out your other end. Imagine you're in a gunfight with someone peeking corners who's deadly accurate, and he has a 6% increase in weapon damage and you're saying it doesn't make a difference? Laughable take. I don't even need to read your long drawn out nonsense to know that you have no idea what you're talking about, at all.
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[quote]Absolute word vomit, except its coming out your other end. Imagine you're in a gunfight with someone peeking corners who's deadly accurate, and he has a 6% increase in weapon damage and you're saying it doesn't make a difference? Laughable take. I don't even need to read your long drawn out nonsense to know that you have no idea what you're talking about, at all.[/quote] Depends on the skill level of the lobby and the game mode. High health is more important for engaging and disengaging. Good players play around recovery speed and objectives. It’s more important to recover 40% faster than have the extra 5% damage.
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Edited by Raiyu: 8/8/2025 8:34:07 AMThe situations I'm speaking of are the ones you mostly find yourself in. Let's be honest, crucible matchmaking is garbage, but when they do get it right and you do face someone of your skill level, and you're in a gunfight with them, peaking, shooting, hiding, repeating, that extra 5% or 6% is critical. I would personally build into weapons AND health for the perfect pvp build. Weapons definitely matters.
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Weapons and health aren’t in the 6 archtypes of pairs that armor gets and I unfortunately only have mostly tier 2 armor so my choice is high health or high weapons. I would 100% spec into 200 health and 190 weapons if I could.
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Edited by EMUracing: 8/7/2025 6:30:41 PMIf either has more than enough to 3 tap, does it really make a difference if one is 91 and the other 92? Only when you are at the extent of range drop off will it really matter. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter at all, I'm saying that I feel building into health and other stats felt better to me than playing as a glass cannon without even getting a tangible TTK shift anymore. Having the high weapon stat worked really well against players who didn't shoot back, but anyone with game sense i was far worse off because I traded at max 5% damage boost for much slower recovery and ability regen.
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This. People will get stomped in a crucible match, inspect the person who crushed them, and see max weapons, because that's what a lot of people are building into right not, and assume that's why they lost. It's just another chapter in people refusing to see the actual problems, which are usually in the camps of 'they just played better than you' or 'this is why we need dedicated servers for pvp'. Usually, it's just people refusing to accept that sometimes in pvp, you just suck. Any excuse to avoid accountability.
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I saw a YouTube short where G. Jake got killed with an Age old bond, and immediately starts saying something and checks the guys build to see the weapon stat. He had kill clip, and had killed a blueberry just before he beamed Jake... but the first instinct is weapon stat. On some weapons, it is needed to keep the same TTK with a kill perk that was normal for t1-9, but did nothing for t10... like, if Redrix came out this season with sword logic, only people who built into 120+130 stat at least could 2 burst. But last season it was a huge issue because only some titans were running t10 resil. So, sword logic would not have received the flak and nerf that it did due to Redrix... and now, if you wanted to 2 burst with it, you needed to spend the stat points to do so. When I look at foundry at weapons, perks and damage/ttk potential, I look at the optimals across multiple old resilience levels. T10 is standard now, but If there's a shift at say t7-8, you need to build into that with the weapon stat or you won't see it. There are more latency issues this season than I have ever seen. Desync has been bad... and I'm sure that a lot of people are getting hit without feeling it, and having it catch up and dying. Then checking the guys stats and assuming they got 2 tapped but it was just the lag catching up.
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Yup. The amount of times that I'm killed from around a corner that from my view I've successfully gotten behind on time is in the hundreds, and it's been a thing since at least forsaken. I'd rather Bungie focus on server issues, matchmaking and actual lobby balancing, but people just whine about getting owned all the time instead.
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It's honestly why I've mostly stopped playing pvp, because I feel that some players manipulate their connections and combined with the low update rates, it makes the match quality quite poor. Getting 2 tapped and left for dead before even seeing the enemy peek is never fun... With how the net code and latency is in this game, there can never be any sort of competitive environment outside of LAN. It worked when TTK was high, and it's part of why the high TTK was part of vanilla D2 , but with .5-6 ttk, it's kind of a joke to think that there can be a competitive experience.
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I really did enjoy pvp on d2 launch. Longer ttks outside of supers and specials(heavies) really made the matches flow better. It also rewarded smart team play. People complained about teamshotting and double primaries, but i was able to roam with impunity, with an actium sweet business build just fine solo. Now, it's basically the same as any other shooter where you spawn, run around the corner, and die before you have any idea of what's going on. It's rather disappointing. I can only imagine what the rumored pvevp patrol space in renegade will be like with these issues. Poorly implemented, i can see it tanking in the same way the dark zone in the division did.
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I still mostly play double primary. Since I can cover multiple ranges adequately at all times. The special ammo system is back to being a mess, but that is what it is... they can never just choose one system and stick with it. I thought the actual system in vanilla was good, but needed like 4x the amount of weapons. I would love for a primary hardware system to come to the game, but doubt that it ever will. Because of all if the imbalance in the game, i primarily live for mayhem... I used to really like general pvp, but it's just a source of frustration now.
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Yeah, I'm pretty much the only person in my group that largely refuses to touch pvp unless required for some objective. It's just wholely unenjoyable now. Though near the end of last season, i did have one match of control that was actually fun. Both teams had a balanced mix of good and bad players, and the good players were running from a to b to c, staying on the opposite side of the mall from each other. The not so good players were either following the good players, or getting rolled by the good players coming up from behind. The result was a control match that felt rather fun. Everyone was running around the map counter clockwise, and you wanted to try to stick with your team and catch stragglers, while not being turned into a straggler to be picked off yourself. The friend with me commented on how much more fun it felt, and they are a far less skilled player than i. Reminds me of the private pvp discords people use to matchmake actual fun games, instead of the dumb system we have now.
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I mean, I'm kind of at the place where I just can't casually hop in anymore. I need to have focus and energy in order to get in and play. Even then, so much feels out of my control, and movement for me feels different in EoF than it did before, so I miss routine jumps and strafes that I wouldn't before (assume it's the mobility stat issue). I grinded to 400, then hopped into some trials last Friday and either I felt like a good, or felt like I was WAY behind the play, and not in a positioning standpoint but connection one. Played a few hardware matches for arms week and felt the same.
