I know a lot of people are celebrating Thorn's incoming nerf. That's fine. I'm all for weapon balance and mixing things up, and think 2.0 is going to bring some variety to the Crucible. But, I've been crunching some numbers, and well, Thorn will probably still be a force to be reckoned with, maintaining its ability to 2 shot lower armor builds. It's time for some math! But first, [url=https://m.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/3c0xwi/indepth_analysis_health_shield_armor_increased/]Armor! How does it work?[/url] Are you back yet? Good, let's continue. Ok, so Thorn with Agressive Ballistics does 84 damage a head shot, so 2 head shots = 168 damage. They are reducing Thorn's DoT to 1/3rd, let's assume they are rounding 7 down to 2. However, they are allowing this DoT to stack. Presumably, stacking refreshes the DoT (this is speculative, but stands to reason). So, two head shots occur for 168 damage. After the first head shot, the DoT starts ticking, the first tick does 2 damage. Then, the next head shot refreshes the DoT, which now does 4 x 6, or 24 damage. So, 168 + 2 + 24 = 194 which is enough to kill just about anyone not running high armor. But what about body shots? Not the fun/sleazy kind! Thorn w/ Agressive Ballistics does 56 damage, so 56 x 3 = 168. Applying the same principles as before, 168 + 2 (first DoT tic) + 4 (DoT tic after the first stack) + [6 (DoT stacked 3 times) x 6 = 36] = 210 damage, which will kill anyone but a Ram user. Even if I'm wrong about the DoT refreshing whenever stacked, and I don't think I am, Thorn would still 2 shot low armor builds by doing 190 damage (168 + 2 + 20) and 3 shot at 198 (168 + 2 + 4 + 24). Think my math is off? Anything unclear? Lemme know! Edit: basic rule of thumb would be, can your PvP build survive a Hunter's trip mine? If yes, you'll live through 2 Thorn head shots. If no, Press X to Respawn. Edit 2: The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that stacking the DoT must cause the DoT to refresh. Why? [quote]*Reduce base damage of Thorn’s Mark of the Devourer DoT (Damage over Time) to roughly 1/3 of what it was in PVP and PVE *Allow DoT to stack up to 5x across multiple landed projectiles *This is a net buff for Thorn’s DoT, but reduces the lethality of the weapon in PVP[/quote] The only way this is a [b]net buff[/b] in PvE is if the DoT refreshes the DoT while stacking. Example 1 - DoT stacks/refreshes: 2 + 4 + 6 + 8 + (10 x 6) = 80 Example 2 - DoT stacks, but doesn't refresh: 2 + 4 + 6 + 8 + (10 x 2) = 40 Example 3 - Baseline, DoT behaves exactly as it does now: 7 x 6 = 42 Edit 3: and what happens if two people using Thorn shoot the same target? Do those burns stack? You think a Trials team of Thorn wielders is bad now, if they can stack the burns, Thorn's lower attack power won't even matter if you're getting team shot. Edit 4: Holy crap, dudes/lady-dudes. I didn't forget about the damage falloff. 1) obviously, this example reflects ideal conditions. 2) Bungie indicated that hand cannons should remain effective into medium range, where the majority of fights will be occurring. This, to me, leads me to believe you won't see a damage falloff until you're outside of medium range. 3) Thorn still has Send It. Even a nerfed version of Send It is still the best range enhancing perk in the game (that we know of), which means Thorn is still the hand cannon with the best range (that we know of). There, hopefully now I don't have to keep repeating myself. Edit the 5th: sorry about all the edits. At least it's not about the number of replies, amiright?! Anyways, a few people have suggested that maybe when Bungie says that the DoT stacks, they really just mean overlap. In that case, 2 headshots would look something like this: 2 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 +4 + 2 = 24, or 192 total damage, which is still enough to kill some low armor builds. In some ways, this makes Thorn more annoying, because if you've survived, you're burning for a longer period of time, which is preventing your shields from recovering while showing your enemy where you are. 3 body shots (again, not the kind in Cancun) would look like: 2 + 4 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 6 +4+ 2 = 36, or 204 total, which still kills anyone but a Ram user. This is still a net buff in PvE, and is actually an INSANE PvE buff (if you feel like using an exotic primary). Your target would literally never stop burning because you just keep reapplying the DoT, and would likely keep burning at maximum strength in between reloads. Either way, Thorn would maintain 2 shot capability on some armor builds, which opens up player choice for victims. Don't like getting insta doomed? Spec for armor. We'll find out who's right next Tuesday. The hype is real. Thanks for reading and participating in a (mostly) civil discussion.