This community has a lot of trash PvE (and PvP) players. It’s easier to blame the content for being “too hard” than to accept their own shortcomings and admit they’re just low-skilled players.

It will always be bungie’s fault for not including matchmaking in teammates-required activities. I don’t care if you disagree. This a QoL basic feature that would not negatively impact you. Any objection is a joke thusly. It’s like saying ‘only people who digitally purchased the game should be allowed to play with others because I think so.’ It is just arbitrary restrictions that don’t make sense to anyone with half a brain. You are a player. Don’t be against player choice. Don’t take the side of mega corporations just because they are mega corporations. Common. Sense. Learn it.

It’s because it’s mechanics heavy - and even though it’s relatively easy it creates a lot of toxicity in the LFGs - KWTD, at least 10 clears - must have emblem - that kind of nonsense- if these were dead easy they would be a lot more of a chill experience... As soon as it gets complicated the elitism appears and no one is interested in teaching...sad...

Yup. Just left a raid that was titled "Have an idea of what to do". Imo that meant we are patient and don't expect to one phase everything. Everything was cool until the phase right before the boss. I was overwhelmed by adds and died twice. I said, "My bad let me twitch weapons and I'll be ok". Who told that one dude to say its getting annoying. If you get mad with wiping twice there and we haven't even reached the boss yet. Nah I'm out

"It's not that [i]The Emoji Movie[/i] was a terrible movie, it's the audience that sucks!" Another "stop not liking what I like" post. Bungie makes games for the player base, so if a significant % of the base doesn't like something, that means it's probably [i]bad for the base[/i] as a whole. It's not entitlement for non-sweats to want to be able to enjoy a game and to decide how much struggle is acceptable for themselves. I've not run it, so I don't have an opinion about it yet. But the majority of the feedback seems to be negative, outside of the usual streamer fanboy/get gud crowd. For the rest of us, adding complexity for complexity sake without adding fun or story to a raid is just bad design, doesn't matter if it's [i]just counting to seven[/i], frustrating mechanics are bad mechanics. I guess time will tell if the player base learns and accepts the changes, or if the complaints remain and/or raid just fizzles out. But telling people their opinions are invalid because they don't match yours or replying "if you don't like it, don't play it" just adds to the overall toxicity that [i]also gets a lot of play[/i] here in the forums, LFGs, etc. and ignores the fact that Destiny isn't[i] just for you[/i].

The only thing that amazes me is how many people panic under the slightest pressure, and cant count to 7 anymore or know left from right, front, middle and back.. 🤣 Ah well, practice does good

I hope they patch the raid cheese soon. Tired of lfg posts looking to cheese. Gives the wrong impression to how the raid should be done. Then they're worse off when they can't abuse that crutch.

The VoG changes weren't entirely needed imo. The Oracles is definitely more of an encounter but the problem is that Bungie wants the whole team to be included but when doing carries that's just not possible. Let's look at Atheon for example, you need a minimum of 4 people that know what they're doing or you will just flat out fail the encounter. The Relic can't be picked up by a noob or more often than not they die with it or don't cleanse, people seem to not be understand Oracle call outs, and most can't seem to understand which side Mars (past) or Venus (future) is

1. VoG is unique because it is a “new” raid that is open to the entire community from Day One. So it is putting a spotlight on the raiding community’s more toxic and exclusionary behaviors. Behaviors that don’t touch you if you are in a clan or raid with the same group of friends each week. 2. VoG raid weapons in D1 were over powered and highly coveted prizes that had fixed rolls. The seldom dropped, but when they did you got something so powerful that Bungie had to reset the entire weapon system (sunset) to get them out our hands. People want that same feeling, but aren’t thinking what it would do to the game. The weapons are powerful, but you have to get one with the right rolls. I have a Fatebringer with Osmosis and Firefly that is almost hit-and-giggle powerful. 3. Now the encounters. The controversy over the Oracle changes is really a fight over inclusiveness vs exclusiveness. This raid was a great opportunity to introduce new players to raiding and expand the raiding community...but Bungie wasted it. The changes to Oracle mechanics are only a minor inconvenience to players already familiar with the raid (a guy actually found his way to Rez me in the Aetheon fight at the Mars sync plate....while BLIND from an uncleansed trip inside the previous round. He literally got around the map **blindfolded.** So there is a fundamental lack of appreciation in the part of many vets of our level of mastery...and how much of a barrier to new players these changes are, while doing very little to make the raid more difficult for vets. So it mainly functions as a big “Keep Out” sign to new players, and disincentivized vets to take a risk an bring on a new or inexperienced player.

80% of the people on these forums get mad they don’t get an adept weapon from logging in.

Shitty mechanic changes are also the issue

The issue players have is that this isn’t VoG, it wasn’t ever meant to be hard. What players loved was the simplicity of the mechanics and how cool they were, the OG Atheon fight was, teleport -> stand on plate -> leave portal -> DPS. It was simpler but extremely fun, when you add extra steps it ruins what made the encounter originally fun. There is a saying if it aint broke dont fix it. I dont ever remember seeing one person ever complain about VoG original mechanics before this clone came out. A TLDR is: They ruined the original experience that players loved of Destinys first raid that saved the game as a whole in a attempt to make a raid artificially more difficult (adding in extra steps just to make it harder)