I agree revive tokens should be an optional difficulty modifier for the try-hards and challenge seekers The same goes with the time limits... If someone just wants to wander around the raid let them they are locations that lots of hard work have been put into so why not give us the time to enjoy them and learn the encounters? Making the raids difficult is not the problem players just want to access them explore and learn how to complete them... destiny has way too much toxic gatekeeping...games are meant to be fun it's not that hard a concept to to have a less demanding difficulty for new and casual players and a extreme mode for the challenge seeker...same with loot rare on the low end common at the high end...it's not that hard and everyone wins

I fully agree I had 8 friends from D1 and we enjoyed the old D1 system and we would raid That all changed with D2 and all have since quit playing and we can see from the comments in this post many agree, yet many in this "community" also disagree & refuse to listen and understand. They enjoy acting elite and they can keep pushing their "get gud" talk and laugh at us scrubs as MORE players leave this game I swear, they never will understand until Destiny collapse. SMH

Back in the day were moonpies were on shelves and kids played out doors instead of beeing stuck on a game nobody cared about this stuff. The game is a piece of piss you should not be using tokens in a base raid hahahaha. Now what I would say they should have a training mode were each encounter is explained and no loot avail. Then move to the normal perfect that than master easy.

Way too many people want handouts because they refuse to do the bare minimum. This game is so incredibly easy, even for me whose hands straight up don’t listen to me. There’s very very little content in this game that requires you to actually be even halfway decent at the game. Edit: maybe raids are just not for you.

The real question here: would you rather it be the D1 version (30 seconds until someone else can revive you, infinite number of times) or keep the revive token system? There needs to be some punishment for dying that isn’t just a small inconvenience. The D1 version punishes you by reducing your team size for at least 30 seconds. This punishment hits harder during damage phases for bosses and can really throw your team for a loop if a mechanics person dies. The D2 version punishes you by adding more pressure in the long term. The more deaths you accumulate, the more pressure there is to not die and force a wipe. Personally, I like the token system more than the timer. Adds pressure for an endgame experience while not fully taking you out of the fight for a prolonged period of time.

I'd rather leave the base difficulty as is; and they add explore mode like they did with dungeons.

This is what killed my D1 raid group going into D2 and its raids. It has been a long time and yet they still will not remove them and in fact have added them to certain activities outside of raids. They are so creatively bankrupt that they cannot come up with anything else other than a token res/ wipe mechanic to punish players who struggle with endgame content as well as those who are good and have to carry said strugglers.

This single change has hurt raiding more than it helped. I understand WHY they THOUGHT it would work, but it's backfired pretty badly to the point that I know plenty of people who used to love raiding and now feel ostracized because they get yelled at for their lack of ability and survivability. With infinite revives you used to be and to take people that struggle and they could at least SEE it and experience it and work towards getting better. Now the punishment is too high for them and any team that they get on.

I have been saying this since D2 launched. I suggested multiple solutions to this, but as -blam!--ing usual I was shouted down by people who had significantly worse raid stats than me in both games at the time. Seems like nothing changes in these forums. I sincerely hope these elitist p ricks get a FAFO moment as Bungie spectacularly fails with this DLC’s sales and engagement numbers. Casual players are the bread and butter of Destiny and have been for years. Pushing them away again will be a mistake they may not be able to rectify in time before this game and Bungie themselves collapses. I’m going to be here with 🥤 🍿 either way.

In fact revive tokens actually forces you to be more cautious and makes you learn how to survive etc... Or else in normal mode you would just keep dying...brute forcing etc... And no need to improve as we all know people dont do normal raids to "prepare for the master raids". Besides...if in 2025 your team still struggles in raids BECAUSE of revive tokens...idk what to tell you...

one learns from failure, not being pandered to in order to "facilitate learning experience". With the current metas, Verity is the only "complex" encounter that requires critical thinking. Otherwise, the res token is merely a stark reminder of "git gud".

Way back, we, ie, me + my regular bunch of buddies from different countries and time zones, and, more often than not, 1x or more of their other buddies, all looking to level-up / acquire the Raid gear / toys. We raided nonstop. Friends Lists were overflowing. The D1 vibe was like that. 👻 Then things changed: timers and timed events began to appear. The Sunset debacle occurred. Thereafter, the vibe was drastically different…Friends Lists evaporated almost overnight. Players bounced. Me too…to WF (MR24 😎)…then, much later, I returned to Destiny’s shores, but this time, it would be different, ie, how I engaged with the game. And so it was…and still is to this day. I normally steer clear of dungeons / raids, because I don’t like timers or complex mechanics…though I do miss the loot! My D1 vault has nearly all of the good stuff…so, that’ll do! ✅ Black hammer / black spindle / whisper 1 / whatever 2 - ridiculous! 🧐 Neomuna Overtuna - no thanks! 👈 Nether and Dungeons on Explore mode were okay, though I didn’t bother with Court of Blades or GotD - too much neomuna Overtuna mechanics for this old tortoise! 🤮 Icebreaker 2 - nah! One of the best things done, imho, was the epic 12-man mission…and finale scenes thereafter. I also got the 3x tricky final missions done - especially the last one, by joining a discord group…we cleared it virtually on the first run…simply because everyone was mic’d up, and knew the drill. Communication is key to those 3x missions. I’d spent hours making LFG groups that required using a mic; players joined nonstop, not one would use the mic…so, inevitably, we wiped without fail. Somehow, I managed to scramble my way through the first two missions - more by sheer luck than anything else…and some really switched-on teammates! ✅✅ However, Discord is a bit too much for this old tortoise…it’s way too busy and way too ‘noisy’…and whenever I revisit, it wants to flood my computer with downloads+++ 🧐 No! That’s how I engage with the game. I suspect there are many more who do likewise. I love the Destiny Universe - what’s left of it. I have lots of warm fuzzies for the worker bees. It’s a very familiar and relatively ‘safe’ space to pootle about in…and, by that, it’s better than cruising the internet - where one is but 2x clicks from places best unseen; and from watching yet another funny pet video. I just don’t like what the BHQ upper tier mismanagement duffers 🤡 keep doing to wreck it. They’ve been doing it since D1Y1… 😡 That is all. Ease Springs! 🖖

Definitely These things have been in the game for way too long, man