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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Marc MJM: 6/29/2016 11:57:05 AM
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SBMM Has Destroyed Destiny, and Here's Why

As Alexander Payne once said, "You just never know when you're living in a golden age." I know now that if Destiny ever had a golden age, it is long gone, but can it ever come back? It depends on if we speak up. The implementation of Skill-Based Matchmaking has destroyed this game. Match times take twice as long as before, and the matches that we do get thrown into are either in progress or are complete sweat fests. It doesn't help that our once-favorite Exotic guns now feel like severely mediocre pea shooters that are mere shells of their former selves. Still, for the purposes of this post, I would like to focus on SBMM. A little about myself. Last summer, I pulled consistent 2.5 to 3 k/ds and found that I was at the top of the scoreboard almost every match. On an average game, I would pull about a 2 to a 2.3 k/d. On an above-average game, I would pull as high as a 5 k/d. Now, I am lucky to even go neutral, and that's putting it lightly. My overall kill/death ratio is somewhere around 2.1 (give or take). The k/ds of the players who I am matched against are 1.5, 2, and 3, whereas the k/ds of the players on my team are .9 to 1.2 (at the highest). Can someone please explain to me how this is fair? Way back, the k/ds of my opponents and teammates alike typically ranged from .8 to 1.3, but as of June 2016 they are more than double these values. Some of you will argue that I was never good at the game to begin with if I cannot compete against players who share my skill set. You may be right, but why should that matter? At the end of the day, Destiny is supposed to be a casual shooter, and as such I should not be forced to play my heart out every single match against players who are just as good if not better than me. Another argument some of you will make is that the only way to truly improve at a game is to play against difficult opponents. What backwards logic. How am I supposed to improve as a player when the anger and frustration brought upon by difficult opponents negatively affect my performance in game? The truth is that you can only improve against weak opponents, not strong ones. It is the same principle in MMOs: you start off fighting lower tier enemies until you are strong enough to fight the higher tier ones. In Destiny's multiplayer, if you possess an overall 1.5 k/d or higher, there is simply NO room for improvement because you are only as strong as Bungie thinks you should be. Essentially, the only way up is down. "But Marc, SBMM finally gives below-average players the chance to compete. You shouldn't be allowed to pull 2 and 3 k/ds every match--that's just unfair to everyone else!" While that may be true for below-average players (the minority), you are literally alienating the rest of everyone else by forcing them to regress to the mean and re-normalize their k/ds against their will. If Bungie is so avid about keeping SBMM in the game despite 90% of the player base blatantly objecting to it on the forums and otherwise, then they need to RESTRICT it to SPECIFIC playlists (i.e.: Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris) that are skill-based by nature. We, the Destiny community, should be given the option to play hyper-competitive matches at our leisure, not all the time. In addition, the only surefire way to resolve the connectivity crisis that is plaguing matchmaking right now is to 100% prioritize the best possible connections over skill. Doing so will make Destiny fun again, but most importantly, doing so will MAKE DESTINY GREAT AGAIN! TL;DR -- Skill-Based Matchmaking has destroyed this game because it favors the minority of players yet excludes the majority, forcing them into ultra-competitive matches without taking into consideration casual play styles and optimum connections. In that regard, Bungie needs to either abolish or restrict SBMM to playlists such as Iron Banner and Trials so that the Crucible can be the light-hearted experience that it once was. EDIT 6/29: So many "you shouldn't be pulling 2 and 3 k/ds every match because that's unfair for us casual players!!" comments. I guess I should have known what to expect. Clearly some of you have short attention spans and did not actually read my post. By catering to the noobs, you alienate the people who actually perform consistently well. Why should players whose k/ds exceed 1.5 need to suffer at the expense of everyone else? That is an emulation of socialism, and it hasn't worked in a single country. One other thing I would like to clear up is that I don't want Bungie to get rid of SBMM across the board so that I can pub stomp everyone again. I want them to RESTRICT SBMM to specific playlists so that the Crucible is not ultra-competitive everywhere we go. Lastly, even if I did go back to getting 25, 30, or 40 kills a match, I'd probably lose anyway. Any time I did exceptionally well in Year 1 was most likely when the rest of my team did exceptionally poor. It's just the way the universe works.

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  • All I read was a bunch of sweat.

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  • We should play in our skill level, its the only way to improve

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    • Its because Bungie wants that one straight line of 1.00 kd on their "science" graphs.

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    • I never knew what cbmm was like swing as I joined later in the year, but me and my friend were playing the other day, and had two matches in a row, with different people, who were lagging so hard that they were practically teleporting. But they were easy to kill. But it sucked because their teammates would down me because I'm concentrating on the lagger. Really took the fun out of the match honestly...

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      • Skill based matchmaking, never heard of it, I normally place first on my team, but the K/D next to me is .2 something is not right there. But yes you have a good point, if you want to win, you can't be laid back. Which is sad.

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      • Yea you are at the tier where the game is extremely slow. I'm at 1.6 and every match is a laggy campfest with snipers everywhere. I miss going balls to the walls because if that fun leeroy Jenkins type player who pushes the line up doing epic takedowns. I've slowly evolved to a hang back and snipe player or area control with a shotty or fusion type guy. It's extremely boring to play like that.. Not to mention I get the worst players on my team every game.

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      • listen i understand what you're saying i think to solve this issue maybe bungie could add a new gamemode/cruicble play list for the more casual player althou i am not sure on how easy that would implement. But you have to understand SBMM is there in place not because of bungie, you do know this right? it is in place of activision, i believe it was MW2 when it really came together it was essentially keeping the masses on the call of duty series because when a casual player comes to play if he gets wrecked 0-10 in his first few games he wont purchase the next set of series in that franchise. Personally i don't think its particulary bad having it in the game if it actually keeps players playing but if the popultion has dwindled then yeah i would agree with you OP anyway see you at the table in IB -Pheat

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      • bump

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      • [i]Not bashing, just a legitimate question[/i] I've been trying to figure out why there are still so many players with low k/d's... I thought the point of SBMM was to make it easier for them; they go up against players who are just as bad, shouldn't their k/d's slowly improve? Or is it just because they start doing well, it puts them into higher-skilled pools, and then they do bad again? I mean, when SBMM first came about, my k/d started plummeting. So I put in more effort and now they're much better (I just have to get around to playing my warlock and hunter more often and get their k/d's up). There seems to be way too many outcomes for a system that only had one in mind, which was to give everyone a 1.0 k/d with a 50/50 win/loss ratio. Instead, my k/d has gone up, others' have gone down, up, or stayed the same (Not necessarily to or around 1.0). Can anyone give their input on this, or maybe tell me their experience with SBMM?

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        • Appreciate the lengthy thoughts fellow Guardian... but boo freaking hoo. Its the Crucible, tears only fuel the fire.

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          • Its just a game, sure crucible has become a lot less relaxed because of it, but what fun is it when you face roll the other team 7 games in a row? I think putting the mercy rule in place, and breaking up teams was enough. But since SBMM it seems its always a sweaty try hard fest. Which is whatever, but I can't stand the lag and bad connection issues that have come along with it. SO many red bars, so many people that won't take damage, so many players running into walls lagging out. Its ridiculous. I never reported anyone for a shitty connection year one, some people just have bad internet. But in year two? I report every person I see cosplaying as Nightcrawler, teleporting across my screen.

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            • Sometimes, what actually hinders one is them; their refusal to adapt or change tactics. I will never claim to be a pvp god, but even in this new rendition of crucible, I have matches all over the spectrum. I have been "the best around" and I have also been at the bottom. I have been positive and negative with k/d in matches. I prefer to have to get better to perform amicably in crucible. I have played crucible since I started playing destiny (which was Jan of year one). The problem is the lag that comes with this matchmaking style, not necessarily the style. It's one thing to "outgun" me; it's another to beat me when you were one spot on the map and then "magically" appeared behind me with a shotgun out. If you're trying to play "casual or try new play styles and weapons", then shouldn't that thought be the predominant one, as opposed to expecting to go positive when playing a way that is not normal or comfortable to you? Sometimes, toss out the idea having to be a "beast" for the sake of trying to learn something new. Just my thoughts on it.

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            • Edited by zJDz: 6/28/2016 2:37:10 PM
              I agree and my kd is 1.2-1.4 sometimes dipping to 1.1. SBMM matches me up against players twice my skill level half the time. They should have two lobbies. One with CBMM and one with SBMM. Make the SBMM lobby have a 6v6 that rotates control, clash, and rift, and a 3v3 playlist that does skirmish, salvage and elimination. In the ranked playlist increase legendary drops to encourage players to do it more than CBMM. Also in the SBMM it should select everyone off of connection then distribute the teams evenly by kd and skill. Also the SBMM should have some kind of ranking system that players can see. They have these crucible weekly bounties to use certain weapon times or the gunsmith bounties to use certain weapons and it's almost impossible to do them because it puts you at a disadvantage. It would be nice to have a game mode where I could use some of the weapons that collect dust in my vault. Skirmish is my favorite game type but since it is a sweat fest 99% of the time I stopped playing it. Also now when I play salvage no one bothers capping the point they just play skirmish and kill everyone. So I have gone back to 6v6 playlist where I can have slightly more fun as they are not as sweaty and I don't have to go full try hard all of the time. Trials is about the only game type that is fun right now because it is CBMM. You don't usually get highly skilled opponents until you are at 6+ wins. Even then it's usually only the the last two games that are the hardest.

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            • I am not that good by any means. I have just over 1 kd witch means nothing to me. But you are mad that you have a 2 kd and are matched against the same people. I will have a game where I'm 2.5 and then the next game all the same people on both teams and get a .4. And I see the same thing with other players the kd is all over the place. I feel you make the game sweaty for yourself, just play the game with whoever you are matched against. If you win or lose or are 5.0 or .5 who cares.

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            • The only that sucks is when your on your light house game and you lose a player due a error code lol...It has at least happened to everyone once if you play trials every weekend.

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            • Agreed

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            • Completely disagree, SBMM favours the majority. Your 2.whatever KD stats mean you absolutely are not the majority.

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              • Edited by dojiijii: 6/28/2016 3:43:02 AM
                Your post has so many problems I don't even know where to start. I don't have time to pick them all apart, so I'll just hit you with the big one. You might want to sit down for this. Destiny has ALWAYS had SBMM. Recognize this. Accept it. That golden age you spoke of? SBMM. Trials of Osiris was the first time Crucible had CBMM. Don't believe me? Believe the source. [url=http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/17/destiny-lead-designers-pvp-multiplayer-tips-a-ign-first]IGN Interview with Lars Bakken (pre release):[/url] "We Matchmake players based on Skill." [url=http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/29/destinys-new-matchmaking-chooses-connection-over-skill]IGN Interview with Derek Carroll (pre HoW):[/url] "We have a different matchmaking criteria for Trials [of Osiris]. We’re highly favoring latency and connections." Please stop blaming SBMM for the current state of crucible, and for your falling KD. Please.

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                • Edited by TheWayHeWept316: 6/29/2016 12:29:50 AM
                  This entire SBMM argument(which we see daily and has become pathetic), is really becoming............oh, sorry, I already said my point in the "(.....)" portion of this post. Anyway, you salty bastards need to get a grip and shut your mouth! Wah wah wah wah wah....all day long. Like a bunch of three year old spoiled brats.

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                • Edited by THE SARGE 01: 6/28/2016 10:47:31 AM
                  So what you are trying to saybis that the top 1 through 5 % of PvP players constitute the majority of the Destiny player base? SBMM is the only thing that keeps the so called Elite in check and prevents them from padding their stats while stomping mediocre players. Stop moaning and just play the game.

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                  Just how much of a nerd are you? You mad because you get matched against a half-decent player who kills you before you get a five killstreak lol yep this definitely needs fixing.

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                • SBMM has ruined this game's multiplayer. In other news, Blacklight:Retribution is a free-to-play, balanced shooter, with connection-based multiplayer. It's super relaxing and easy to enter IF YOU PLAY THE TUTORIAL!!! On PS4, if you download the game, you can also download an exclusive free PS+ entry pack which includes some in-game currency, a revive kit and a free weapon. :D

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                • Whiny bitch because you cant get a 2 or 3 kd . Suck it up dumb ass

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                  • Way to actually argue FOR SBMM. It almost as if that was your intent.....

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                  • If you can't handle this "SBMM", then maybe you're just not as good as you think you were.

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                    • Sounds like you just thought you were better than you actually are. No biggie. Just practice and you will get your kd up like before

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